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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
 Posted - 11/10/2009 : 18:39:33
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Keep on guys, I think that somebody at Roland/Boss reads this forum, why not?
This is the forum that the most knowledge of Boss are, we are the professors of Boss 
And we even have a King  |
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The_Doc
Gold Member
United Kingdom
509 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2009 : 22:30:35
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Interesting times with 'Way Huge' making a comeback, EH constantly expanding their product catalogue, MXR bringing out 'silicon fuzzes' and other niche pedals, Digitech revamping their range and Rocktron bringing out a 'Boutique' series, among many others.
For some reason the specialist pedal market clearly looks attractive to these manufacturers. Why? I'm guessing something like...
- lower manufacturing costs so that you can produce something that looks and sounds boutique but at a lower unit cost than in the past
- you can sell at a higher margin
- you can expand and develop the brand into the 'custom' and 'boutique' space
- guitars are back in vogue again and no self-respecting guitarist in a band these days wouldn't be seen without a pedal board
- an array of pedals says more about you as a guitarist than any bland multi-effects / rack units can - there is some kudos and respect in a good pedal board
- stomping on little boxes is fun 
Anyway, I could go on but the bottom line here BOSS is that there is a market opportunity there - right now - to stretch this brand into higher margin / boutique segments. So, the commercial proposition is agreed then - time to get your thinking caps on Boss R&D and find out what will float that market's boat.
PS: because our King of Boss says so too.... |
Edited by - The_Doc on 11/10/2009 22:31:14 |
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sclitheroe
Copper Member
Canada
29 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2009 : 23:43:13
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Does anyone have a good link handy that shows the difference between a true bypass pedal vs. a FET switched one (of BOSS quality)? Preferably on an oscilloscope?
I find it hard to believe that FET switched pedals have much, if any, detrimental effect. This article: http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Gibson%20Tone%20Tips_%20True%20Bypass/ even suggests that the buffering in a BOSS style pedal can be helpful in certain circumstances.
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DasBeef
Gold Member
United Kingdom
704 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 00:12:05
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As the first 'King of Boss', I think it would be in the company's best interest to release a signature DasBeef pedal. Just putting that out there you know..... |
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Ollie
Gold Member
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 00:52:13
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| Completely off topic your majesty, but are you enjoying Modern Warfare 2? I know I am |
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Blackrash
Bronze Member
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 00:54:48
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Hey sclitheroe!
I wonder this same question constantly... I am building a true bypass looper right now and will try to figure it out...
Once I finish, I will run my tuner, wah, distortion pedals, etc... through 4 separate loops in the 4 loop true bypass...I am going to play with boosters and FET switching pedals at the end of the line to see the effect on my sound...
I know I need something though, as I get Spanish radio stations when running through my off distortion pedals , not to mention the wah sound kill!
I read your article and it was similar to the one I read here:
http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/articles/bypass.htm
As for Boss, I LOVE the pedal housing! I wish they would put out both true bypass, top component, artist limited series with unique custom paint pedals... but I would still like to see FET switch pedals
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 01:05:00
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quote:
Originally posted by sclitheroe
Does anyone have a good link handy that shows the difference between a true bypass pedal vs. a FET switched one (of BOSS quality)? Preferably on an oscilloscope?
I find it hard to believe that FET switched pedals have much, if any, detrimental effect. This article: http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Gibson%20Tone%20Tips_%20True%20Bypass/ even suggests that the buffering in a BOSS style pedal can be helpful in certain circumstances.
This is the subject of vigourous debate on many forums.
There is no scope pics that I'm aware of to prove this one way or the other - it is actually not something you could do with a scope. probably need a pink noise source and a signal analyser. Even then it won't tell you what you will actually hear.
Try this:
http://www.muzique.com/lab/truebypass.htm |
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chrissydamage
Silver Member
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 02:33:28
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"My advice: Buy true bypass when you can. Always use good quality cables and go ahead and chain your pedals together. Then, don't worry any more about it and just start jammin'!"
Thats a good quote from the article above referenced by Laurie-
True bypass will make little difference without good quality cables; signal degradation of some kind will always happen in long chains of pedals and I guess thats why true bypass is an issue for people using a lot of effects-
They do have a little known product called the GT-Pro which is basically every effect they have ever made chained together in a totally digital environment (with no signal degradation) that can be computer controlled with 3 send/returns and a digital coaxial output......
And they've probably sold about 300 of them worldwide in total.... COSM probably is the future, but we probably won't realise it till the year 2029 when GT-pros fetch £10k on ebay and we all marvel at what an amazing machine it was and so far ahead of its time........
But yeah, lets have a vintage series now!! They could set up a seperate arm of the business to build all the cool stuff by hand to the original spec using original componants-
They couldn't cut any corners though, it would have to be identical to the originals otherwise people will always moan that 'the old ones sounded better' and it would be a totally pointless exercise....
Roland could do it too- lets have a 'new' TR-909, an 808, a 303, a Juno and Jupiter 8, Dimension D, a CE-1/OD-1/VB-2 etc etc etc.....
Could be a smart business move too, if they could pull it off they could take a big chunk out of the second hand market for all of the really desirable older stuff and reap the rewards for themselves.........
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verivorax
Platinum Member
Canada
1185 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 02:57:44
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Modern Warfare 2 is keeping me away from my pedals too (well, they're just to my right, but out of reach)
crazy game.
BOSS still sells really well.. people don't always need the features/benefits of a boutique styled pedal, and want just the simple reliability of the BOSS. I see a lot of gigging musicians relying on some BOSS mainstays.. A reissue line would be interesting, and might raise the value of the originals (esp. if the reissues suck), but BOSS doesn't like to admit that prior products may have been superior to their current line-up.. Maybe they'll stay blissfully ignorant of the changes going on around them and weather the storm. |
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sclitheroe
Copper Member
Canada
29 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 03:59:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Laurie
quote:
Originally posted by sclitheroe
Does anyone have a good link handy that shows the difference between a true bypass pedal vs. a FET switched one (of BOSS quality)? Preferably on an oscilloscope?
I find it hard to believe that FET switched pedals have much, if any, detrimental effect. This article: http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Gibson%20Tone%20Tips_%20True%20Bypass/ even suggests that the buffering in a BOSS style pedal can be helpful in certain circumstances.
This is the subject of vigourous debate on many forums.
There is no scope pics that I'm aware of to prove this one way or the other - it is actually not something you could do with a scope. probably need a pink noise source and a signal analyser. Even then it won't tell you what you will actually hear.
Try this:
http://www.muzique.com/lab/truebypass.htm
Yeah, I saw that link too. It's certainly a complex subject and also one that is very subjective (and I think the previous poster who talked about audiophile mentality invading music was bang on).
My take is whether true-bypass is better or not, its affect on my tone is insignificant compared to my abilities on a given night, the condition of my strings, stuff like that. I'm just not at a point yet where it could conceivably make any difference. Although I am getting to a point where I do notice when my strings are starting to wear (as opposed to only noticing the vast improvement when I actually change them), and humidity too seems to change my tone, something I never noticed until this summer..
It also seems like having some buffering in the effects chain reduces troubleshooting complexity because it eliminates a number of potential issues with capacitance, so having at least one BOSS pedal in there is OK. Make mine a HM-2 ;)
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phostenix
Gold Member
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 06:42:57
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I think the next 5 years will be very interesting in the guitar world. Modeling continues to improve. Boss will have to keep pace with the likes of Fractal Axe, etc. The next generation of players will grow up with modeling & I think will want more than single effect stompers. More pro players are beginning to use modeling gear, too.
My guess is that the split between the collectors/tone hounds & the working musicians as well as the casual players will grow wider.
I see the vintage analog gear market shrinking and becoming more exclusive. If that happens, I would expect Boss to chase the main market, not develop specialty lines. |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 09:07:45
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Fractal is a pretty high end product to be using as a comparison..although they probably are ahead of the rest with the modelling thing right now..possibly Roland might go down that road but i reckon it will be a while before that sort of stuff comes down to the mainstream market...i've used modelling for recording with good results and have no problems with any technology that is easy to use with a minimum of setting up time and sounds the business... but i still thing the simulation thing falls down in the live enviroment... possibly if your in a big name band or session musician with top of the line PA and monitoring it might work but for you average pub/club muso it's hard to beat an amp and a few pedals..i think there with always be a market for single stompboxes as guitar players seem to be extremely conservative when it comes to this stuff..what other group still uses valve/tube technology apart from the russian military....... |
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phostenix
Gold Member
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 10:35:30
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Guitar players still use valves for one reason - sound. If that sound can be duplicated without the hassles of tubes, guitarists will make the change.
Fractal IS high end, but that's my point. They've raised the bar and everyone else, including Boss, will have to respond. Just like everything else in technology, prices will come down. Oh, and you can bet that Behringer is busy reverse engineering the Fractal gear right now.
So, when you can buy that level of modeling for $500, I think the whole market changes.
There will still be guitar players who want simple to use equipment (a common knock on digital processors - "I just want a couple of knobs"), but that's already happening, too. Effects & amp makers will have simpler lines of gear that model the great sounds players want in additoin to complex gear like the GT-Pro.
I still see the future being great digital models of classic gear rather than a return to re-making old analog circuits. |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 11:19:33
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Your probably right about Behringer... i love the valve gear and simple pedals because it is user friendly and bulletproof for live work..if Fractal,Boss etc can make something in a affordable price range that saves my back humping gear in and out of venues with the same sound quality and response plus the simple tweakibility i get from my rig..happy days...carrying in a small rack with a couple of 1x12 cabs if it sounded right isn't a problem for me as i'm not getting any younger and neither is my back...but scrolling through menus and parameters on the fly isn't a runner in a live situation.. |
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Mansun
Gold Member
Spain
564 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 13:24:29
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| I agree totally with Franzoni. Two knobs can be easier if you have time for scrolling, but in a live situation you need something fast like a boost or a phaser effect at the touch of a pedal, some songs can get more and more complex. |
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Boss on the market place
