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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
 Posted - 10/10/2007 : 22:36:26
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I've been playing guitar through my Boss & Moog pedals into a Mackie mixer & out to some powered PA & studio monitors. I usually play at lower volumes & am fairly unhappy with my tone. Coupled with the fact that I've owned a Peavey Studio Pro 40 since '83, I'm really in the market for a great tube amp.
I have a very rough idea of what the different brands/models sound like such as VOX for britishy stuff, Fender for vintage sounds, Marshall for rock, Line-6 for modeling, etc. & a naive understanding of what valves really are all about. I know there are JC-30s, Bassmans, et al. I fully realize that the only way to fairly judge each is trying them out.
At this point though, I'd like to ask you guys what you play & why. Can you offer some generalized information you think I should know before ploppin' down my hard-earned greenbacks?
My son also needs a tube amp as well to complement his Marshall DFX30. I don't mind spending good money for damned good equipment, I just like to buy the right thing the first time. Anyway, please help guide me with some experience & info so I can take it all in & more seriously realize what I'm testing out down at GC.
TIA guys  |
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exodia333
Silver Member
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 23:18:36
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[I've owned a Peavey Studio Pro 40 since '83)
Well I sugest you try something that is more your style
For me its a line 6 spider III but I still need a DS-1 so I could get more Clarity.
It's sweet that you had your peavey for a long time I Suggest you keep it as a practice.
(I have a very rough idea of what the different brands/models sound like such as VOX for britishy stuff, Fender for vintage sounds, Marshall for rock, Line-6 for modeling, etc. & a naive understanding of what valves really are all about. I know there are JC-30s, Bassmans, et al. I fully realize that the only way to fairly judge each is trying them out.)
I suggest You try out a Spider valve that Just came out. They have a lot of variety plus its a tube amp.
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 01:55:49
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my own take on this is.....i like a strong clean sound and use my pedals for effects..i use a twin tube classic overdrive pedal for dirty/leads sounds the rest are boss splitting at the last pedal(CH1) into stereo to a musicman hd130 and an old marshall superbass head and a 2x12 cab both tube (or as us europeans call them valves.. )...if your happy with your pedals for your sounds and just want a good valve amp to warm it and don't need too many bells and whistles..i.e 2nd lead channel,effects loop etc...i have to say the musicman is a good amp i find for this and can be got fairly cheap...i've seen some of the 1x12 combos in the U.S ebay for as little as $250..the have a solid state preamp section but a valve(tube)power section and were used by a lot of country guitar players when they came out in the 70's.. mark knopfler and eric clapton were two other high profile users....but a 70's fender silverface twin would work just as well...what i like about the older amps is....
A/....thay were made at a time when valve technology was still used widely so i find the quality to be pretty much higher than todays off the shelf stuff..to obtain similar you have to start looking at boutique makers like budda,matchless,carr,rivera...etc..these people understand that to use tubes in an amp the components have to be robust because the heat generated by the valves for one....
B/...in the states there seems to be a few people left that know how to service this sort of stuff alas not so many here anymore so i end up with the help of our singer(electrician by trade) and the brother in law(electricial engineer) in fixing/maintaining the amps myself...both have expressed admiration for the neatness of construction,easy access to components,quality of components and overall build construction.....
so if you see where i'm going with this bro' IMHO unless your prepared to put out some of your hard earned for a decent bit of kit i would have a look at the small ad's or ebay and see what you can find..i can see with your collection of mackie,moog and boss stuff your obviously a person who likes quality gear but if you do your homework on this you don't have to pay big money for a quality amp.............. |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 10/11/2007 02:18:19 |
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StratoSphere
Double Platinum Member
Canada
2232 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 03:30:19
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i like to have a clean guitar tone and a pretty flat amp setting and let the pedals do the work. when i want to turn up to really rock out, i turn up my amp; not my pedals. theres a lot of pros and cons of tubes versus Solid State that you have to consider.
tube amps weigh more in general. keep that in mind if you gig a lot and have to carry it around every night. tubes also need more maintenance, and overall care. they take a minute to warm up and tend to have more background noise at high volumes. its also recommended that you play them every day to keep it healthy. but with all of these bad features comes the good. the tube tone that can only be found with TUBES! i have yet to hear a convincing solid state that models tube amps.
solid states are way more convenient in almost every way but everything has a trade off. many people believe that SS sound sterile and just arent comparable to tubes tonewise.
but it really comes down to what kind of music you play and how much you want to spend. if you were just hired as the new guitarist in Cannibal Corpse, you might want to trade in the tubes for a SS. any times ive played metal with tubes it hasnt turned out so well. or if you play rhythym with another guitarist in a live setting once a week, solid state will do you fine. i find tubes vs. SS to be a little overhyped really but there is definately a difference and its up to you to try differnent things out and see what suits your stlye best. |
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nilo
Bronze Member
Sweden
75 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 07:51:23
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| i play a modified Marshall JCM 800, because i like the original tone, but i wanted an FX-loop, tighter bass and more gain... |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 08:08:57
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Hi DeFrag
You didn't mention if you will be using the amp for home or gigging volumes.
From my point of view, it's really important to get a valve or any other amp, that has a really great clean tone, with enough headroom that it stay clean when you really dig in.
Once you have found your Clean Amp & Tone, then you can add any other pedals to it to make dirty, a little of a lot.
Also remember that it's better to run a booster into a clean Valve input amplifier, to get a really creamy overdrive sound, the valve will soft clip the loud signal, & the sigal will be flattened off, slightly compressed have a rounded edges;
This is the overdriven valve tone that all the TubeScreamer guys rave about.
A Hot signal into a valve front end.
Where if you run a hot-loud signal from a booster into a transistor input stage it will tend to clip very hard, and look more like a nasty square wave.
The squarer the edges on the waveform, the more odd 3rd-5th-7th-11th harmonics are created, depending on the levels, these odd harmonics tend to be very dissonant.
This is the case with most transistor amps, & its called Hitting the wall, there is just not enough current in the power supply & so the signal just flattens & squares off.
You will also need to remember, that valve amps like to breathe, & they really start to sing when you give them some stick.
This can be much too loud if you have a really powerful valve amp.
Hey honey, is that the police at the front door again?
So it might be wiser to get a lower power valve amp, that will not be so loud when you turn up the volume.
More theory, a valve amp because of its nature & some of the above theory, will Apparently sound about 12dB or more louder that the same transistor amp.
Go turn up a Fender 40W valve amp, & then compare it to a 110W transistor amp.
OK, my preference is an old Fender 75 a bit of a rare beast from about 79-81.
It's Based on a Fender Blackface front end & with an extra overdrive channel.
But I will admit I have learned to become a Fender 6L6 output stage sort of guy.
Not many people mention the Mesa Boogie amps, they have some truly stunning sounding amps, & the all valve creamy overdrive is great.
I have never really search for a Marshall Heads/stack the EL34-84's have always sounded a bit fizzy to me.
But, I have been looking at a 50th anniversary Marshall Combo.
Peavey Classic 30 & Classic 50 are also Valve amps, they have EL34-84's, and are becoming very collectible & sought after amp.
And have been voiced in such a way, that they don't have that Fizz.
These aren't mentioned hear much either.
I also have a Mesa 50-50 twin rack head, but unless your playing Coliseum sized venues, it's another Honey is that the police amps.
Goran Has a collection of low power valve amps 5 to 15 watts.
They all have their good & bad points.
Maybe he will have some valid comments for you.
So Really DeFrag,
In the end it's up to your specific needs, & more so to
your ears & heart .... and wallet.
Hope this has been of some use.
Regards Dr. Bob |
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ronster
Gold Member
Australia
645 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2007 : 07:13:31
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WOW nice post Dr Bob!
Just my 2 cents. I use a Fender Blues Jnr (tweed one) and I love it. I don't really get to use it as much as I would like as my little Fender solid state does the job.
I normally play one or the other at home depending on what I feel like. If I gig then I normally use my ss amp and plug into a DI box and tehn use my amp as a foldback. I guess I would mic my tube amp if I needed more volume and retain more real tone.
Good luck with the amp shopping. Sounds like fun. Remeber to rest your ears!!! |
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Pedalhead
Silver Member
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 07:37:57
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DeFrag I would like more information from you about what you are going for in an amp. Do you want to keep playing at lower volumes? Do you want to be able to keep up with drums/bass/ect? Whatcha wanna spend(ballpark)? I can give you my two cents from there.
As for my current amp selection I am playing a 1978 Fender Musicmaster Bass amp. It is a three tube, 12W, 1x12 Bass amp that should have been marketed as a guitar amp. I use it just for recording and home practice, AND it only cost $150. Yes, thats right, $150 for a Fender tube amp. I did have to upgrade the speaker, but still... |
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timbo
Silver Member
Australia
252 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 08:42:04
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well, funny i read this topic... i tried out an epiphone valve junior combo and head on saturday morning. man o man! completely blew me away! its really worth trying one out.
the combo has an input, volume and 4ohm speaker output jack and 8inch speaker. the head has the same (minus the speaker >_<), plus an eq knob, and 8 and 16ohm outputs. both 5 watts class a valve.
now what is interesting reading some of you comments is that alot of you guys like clean tone. dont buy the combo! because it has an 8inch speaker, you get more speaker distortion as opposed to a 12inch in a 1960 cab, simply because a smaller speaker has a quicker transiant time (how fast it goes from one excursion forward to back).
go the head.
i played through a single g12 70 and it was incredible. if you crank it all the way up, hit the strings hard, it breaks up rather nicely. roll down you guitar volume and it cleans up. this is how a good valve amp should work. angus young is an example of this, he always has his amp on 5ish and rolls the guitar volume for cleans. in saying this, i did roll back the volume on the amp and it sounded great.
and like dr bob was saying with volumes, dont be fooled by 5 watts! it is loud. remember that there is bugger all difference in spl (dB) between 100w, 50w and 30watts. so 5w is plenty for home and recording use.
i cannot stress enough that you need to try one of these out if you havent! oh, did i mention the head costs $170aud? 
-timbo |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 10:12:03
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| Money is of little object & I think I like the Mesa Engineering amps the best so far. I tried a 3-channel Randall yesterday with replaceable preamps. It was versatile enough I suppose & it could sound like a Blackface, Vox, Hendrix (JTM?), Plexi, etc. with the different preamp modules. My son liked it but I think the best tone comes out of a Vox AC30, at least for my liking. I need to test the Vox & Mesas out a bit closer, but I haven't given the Fender reissues a fair shake yet & they look great. I'll play a bit louder these days as my guitar skills have improved & I'm not so shy that I suck as bad anymore. I wonder which Fenders I should try & what are your thoughts regarding Mesa & Vox? Tks guys.. keep 'em comin' |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 10:29:38
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Nice post Timbo
It's to hear that someone else Understands & appreciates just how loud 5 Watts can be.
What was the G12 that you ran the Jr. Head into, was it in a single 1.12 cab?
A lot for people just don't understand that to get 2 times the apparent volume you need to multiply the power in watts FOUR times
Here is a simple and eye opening table.
For twice the apparent volume:
5 Watts would = 20 watts
20 Watts would = 80 watts
50 Watts would = 200 watts
100 Watts would = 400 watts
150 Watts would = 600 watts
200 Watts would = 800 watts
See what I mean by eye opening.
and on top of this phenomenon, a valve amp can have an apparent
volume that is 12dB greater than it's Solid State cousin.
5 Tube watts can be enough to manifest the
Honey I think the Police are at the font door again, syndrome.
I have a Mesa Boogie twin 50 - 2 rack head, I Had to stop playing it,
as even on a volume setting of 0.5 out of 10,
My over the road neighbor would complain. & manifest the police.
Timbo, have you tried the Fender 5W champ 600 reissue.
Goran is lucky enough to own a Champ 600 & a ValBee, I think they are 15 watts, but with heaps more options.
Regards Dr. Bob |
Edited by - Dr. Bob on 10/14/2007 10:32:34 |
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timbo
Silver Member
Australia
252 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 10:42:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Bob
Timbo, have you tried the Fender 5W champ 600 reissue.
Goran is lucky enough to own a Champ 600 & a ValBee, I think they are 15 watts, but with heaps more options.
no, i havent. i cant seem to find a place that stocks fender amps... and is a valbee the ibanez amp? at college last year they had a fender twin red knob. i never appreciated fender amps until i played it! and they also had a jcm 900 2x12 combo. it was horrible...
and it was plugged into a single 12. open back.
i have played a 100watt jcm800, with only 2 valves, and on 1 it was way too loud! but it did sound great!
i would like, one day, to get a jcm800 non master volume head, the plexi circuit one. but at night i dream of playing a mesa coliseum... |
Edited by - timbo on 10/14/2007 10:43:07 |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 10:49:03
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I go the opposite way..as timbo and the Doc pointed out small amps break up a lot quicker so for me thats no use.... as i said before i think the way to go is a good clean sound and use a pedal to dirty things up...but maybe thats just me as i have to cover a lot of different bases with our band ...the musicman is actually a 130 watt amp but i just turn the master volume down... i disagree that a valve(tube) amp has to be cranked to sound tops...i agree that they do sound great this way but i put power amp valve converters in the marshall(no master volume) to curb the volume it produces...in stead of using el 34's which produce about 25 watts each x 4=100 watts in theory (as the Doc pointed out goes that out the window when it come to valves..i've heard stories of marshalls on test benches producing up to 150+ watts out of a supposed 100 watt head.. )...the el84's produce about 8 watts eachx4=32watts(also very loud but a lot more managable i gig with this all the time)..and i get a bit of the vox sparkle from them as well.....if money is no object to you DeFrag and your leaning towards the vox ..check out the JMI series amps..basically it's ex employees of VOX that have gone their own way who produce the amps in a more 'traditional' way.....all hand wired etc... also Hiwatt are being made again...not the korg owned name they use in the states..but made in england by a guitar store who bought the U.K operation.... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 10/14/2007 10:56:41 |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 15:15:41
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Hi Franzoni
I to, use a big power amp, the Fender 75, is a full 75 watts RMS,
the output transformer is a true ULTRA-LINEAR design.
Here at home, it's the Amp I turn to the most.
I hope I wasn't trying to sell low power amps to Defrag, yourself & the guys.
I was just trying to do a bit of left of center thinking.
The Fender 75 is a really versatile amp, it has a Master Vol & a dirty channel,
It also has a low power switch, that drops the output, to around 15 watts.
It sounds great in both modes.
It's one of Fender's best kept secrets, & as far as I'm concerned, it became my main all round amp, a will stay with me, as a life long friend.
Yes it's really that good. It loves pedals, All Kinds, all brands.
Like I mentioned earlier, as special, as it sounds at home & small studio volumes, it really blossoms & comes alive when it's turned up to about 4-5, & you let it breathe a bit.
I know that doesn't sound like much, but I've done 500 plus people gigs with that volume, & I was still asked to back it off a bit --- NOW!!.
At that level, it almost shatters the front windows on the house.
Sorry if I went off topic a bit, but I felt needed to clear up, what I was trying to say earlier.
also Hiwatt are being made again...not the Korg owned name they use in the states..but made in england by a guitar store who bought the U.K operation....
Boy I would like to hear, & have one of those, they were-are real rare here in Oz.
Any idea what sort of Bling$ they are asking for them?
Is there a link to their new operations?
Regards Dr. Bob |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 15:55:11
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Boy I would like to hear, & have one of those, they were-are real rare here in Oz.
Any idea what sort of Bling$ they are asking for them?
Is there a link to their new operations?
hi Dr Bob and all....i'm not 100% sure of the whole story..maybe some of our U.K based forumites might be able to shed more light on it but as far as i know one of the big guitar shops bought the name a few years ago and korg had the name internationally..i think there might of been some sort of dispute but i think they came to sort of agreement..what i heard was the U.K. based operation were making the amps to the original specs..i.e the harry joyce/dave reeves mil spec wiring..etc.. and korg were making cheaper transistor models...when i was thinking a while ago of upgrading my amps i was looking at the SA 1x12 combo but they were nearly 2000 euro each.........big time bling....there was an ad in the local buy and sell here a while ago a guy was looking for 500 euro for and old 100 watt head..i was seriously considering it but i couldn't really justify it as i already have three amps .....!!......
the fender is a great amp doc...if i could get me hands on a couple of them at the right price......i need clean headroom for my style of playing and the ol' back is starting to give out about lifting the musicman.... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 10/14/2007 16:02:29 |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 16:18:50
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Hi Franzoni
the fender is a great amp doc...if i could get me hands on a couple of them at the right price......i need clean headroom for my style of playing and the ol' back is starting to give out about lifting the musicman....
Don't even try to kid yourself Franzoni,
the Fender 75 weighs in as much as a Fender Twin, with out the second 12" speaker.
I have to get the Kids to load it in at this end, & get someone else to help me, at the gig end.
You might hear me occasionally call it by it's other name:
Bitch, the other guys with their SS amps just laugh.
I once was heard to comment:
"That great tone is directly proportional to excessive weight".
Haven't you notice Franzoni, that as you slowly turn your six pack Abs, into more of a keg, your playing ability increase, & your Tone just keeps getting better.....
I don't mean to be rude, but I've noticed that Defrag, has been staying out of this for the last few posts?
Regards Dr. Bob |
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I need a tube amp
