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gibsygoldtop
Copper Member
USA
21 Posts |
 Posted - 09/27/2006 : 13:02:29
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Hey everyone! Hears the deal. I am running a DD 3 straight into the amp (mesa boogie single rec combo), as I don't want to deal with the effects loop. The delay sounds great on the clean channel, but it sounds muddy and has no clarity with any distortion added to it.
Is there a Boss DD that will not do this? I have the DM 2, but this doesn't give me the ample delay that I need.
Any suggestions? Thanks in advance! |
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StratoSphere
Double Platinum Member
Canada
2232 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 13:39:51
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heres the deal. it sounds like you are using your amps distortion with the delay in front of it. most people will tell you NEVER to use delay before distortion. put your DD-3 in the effects loop (after your amp distortion), and i guarantee this problem will clear up.
and to answer your other question, its not the pedal that has a sound problem, its just that its in the wrong spot in your chain. any other delay pedal would sound the same.
Hope this helps, good luck |
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gibsygoldtop
Copper Member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 14:14:00
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I totally understand what you are saying about running it in the loop. Its been there before and sounded great, however, I don't want the added hassle of extra cables and set up time when getting ready to play.
What it comes down to is I don't want to use the loop at all. I want straight in and straight out to the amp. Are you saying that I will never get this with a digital delay? |
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stahlhart
Platinum Member
1318 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 17:17:28
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Tape delays have been plugged into amplifier inputs for years.
I'd guess that you're trying to get too much of your tone out of the preamp stage(s) and not enough out of the power output stage, if you're relying on the amp for distortion and not a pedal. That does mean higher playing volumes, though.
/or a power attenuator
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gibsygoldtop
Copper Member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 18:10:55
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i don't quite understand the whole preamp stage and the power output stage. yes, I am using the amp for distortion and yes, I am playing at or real close to stage volume.
but back to the original question, can i get the sound i am looking for out of any delay pedal going straight into the amp?
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Leeroyfunk
Silver Member
United Kingdom
400 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 18:33:56
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quote:
Originally posted by gibsygoldtop
back to the original question, can i get the sound i am looking for out of any delay pedal going straight into the amp?
You are unlikely to get a "clear" or "non-muddy" sound by running ANY delay pedal straight into the front of a high gain amp - The distortion from the amp will compress the echoes/repeats as they try to fade, making them sound louder than is natural, and muddying the sound. As has been stated, it will probably sound clearer if it goes in the loop, i.e after the pre-amp. |
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gibsygoldtop
Copper Member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 19:03:18
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| i was afraid of that answer...thanks for everyones input! |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 18:30:10
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another option is to get an attenuator with a effects loop(groove tubes make one) and use a delay in the loop but then you would need to get a power amp and a speaker cab as well...your tone from your boogie would be kept 'pure' ie pre amp and power amp distortion (with nothing in the amps effect loop )with the effects added after but this would be very expensive to do(as far as i know this is what van halen does attunates the amp and adds his effects after) and you would be losing the speaker distortion which also is part of the 'magic'...i think part of your problem is that boogies are high gain amps so when you put an effect in front such as a delay its hard to get a clear sound from the pedal...
valve amps use two or three preamp valves usually a 12ax7 or similar(i think boogies use five or more to get the cascading distortion they are famous for) so when you turn up the channel volume with the master volume low these valves distort
power amp distortion is when the master volume is up fairly high the power amp valves (i'm not sure what boogies use) i.e el34's ,6v6,el 84's etc start to distort...think early clapton hendrix,van halen etc
most guitarists if using amp distortion us a bit of both unless its a old marshall etc with no master volume in that case you have no choice.... i think thats why they are so sought after by tone heads but as you have found out putting a delay in front doesn't sound great... i think that why the likes of gilmour and eric johnson etc use a pedal for their distortion because echo and delay is a important part of their sound or larry carlton who brings his own P.A. and mikes the natural sound of his amp and runs it through a small mixer where he adds his effects...!!!!a lot of gear to bring to a gig.... |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 18:43:05
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| i don't know if this would work....but if you used your 'send' off your effects loop on you boogie and ran it to the dd3 and the from the output of the dd3 into another amp you could keep your boogie for your 'dry' sound and the other amp could be your 'wet' sound..maybe if you don't have another amp a friend might lend you one or try it in a rehearsal studio if there is a spare amp lying around..like i said i'm not sure if this would work and maybe a quick email to boogie to make sure it wouldn't damage your amps before you try it...... |
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gibsygoldtop
Copper Member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 04:47:57
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FRANZONI, thanks for your input, alot of great advice! However the other day I ended up sticking the effects in the loop. I just didn't want to do this b/c i didn't want the hassle of the extra set up time before a show. The results were good, as expected..but a longer set up time...
I was running all the effects straight in and was getting a good sound. But the delay was less then thrilling in front of the amp. So now I have the DD3, BF2, and the CE2 in the loop and my tuner, wah, phase and decimator in front. It sounds great this way and the CE2 is great in the loop as it acts like a boost when stepped on for solos. Also, knowing the my chain was kind of long, my tone has improved too...
Again, thanks for all the replies! |
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DD 3 sounds terrible with distortion
