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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
 Posted - 06/21/2005 : 07:42:31
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As we all "know" Boss pedals quality dropped with the move to Taiwan, just like what happened when CBS took over Fender.
But is this true? Or was it a slow, more or less, move towards lower quality?
What did they do, lower quality components, lower quality control, lower building quality?
Can we say as a rule that all Taiwan equivalent pedals are worse sounding?
And why did Boss manufacture some pedals in Japan after the Taiwan-takeover? |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 09:06:46
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Most people seems to agree with this assesment but I don't.
I think Boss has always tried to use the cheapest components in order to be competitive in the marketplace. In some cases cheaper components may have become available after the move to Taiwan. In some cases it may be better components becoming available at the same price. |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 11:04:53
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You are probably right, but the myth says that Boss pedals lost their fine quality when moved to Taiwan.
I don�t think a company would lower quality just to save a couple of cents/pesos, destroying their reputation.
For example I can hear that a DS-1 from Japan sounds different than a Taiwan-made, but not automaticly to the worse, just different. That�s a question of taste.
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andi purple
Copper Member
Indonesia
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 11:13:24
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i dont know much about components. but, i agree that DS1 japan is better than taiwan. But GE7 jpn no differences w/ taiwan (as long that i heard it)...when did boss stop produce its effects in Japan? hw about 91?92? around those years maybe?...
some effects have differences btween jpn & twn. but somes, theres no differences... i think so... |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 11:37:23
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The Japanese production probably stopped around 91-92 as you suggested. The DS-1 is an intersting example. The early Taiwan produced DS-1s are identical to the Japanese versions. The design change happened around -94 when parts became unavailable. The DD-3 was also changed because the BBD they used wasn't available anymore.
A pedal that hasn't changed significantly is the SD-1. I haven't A-B'ed the Japanese and Taiwan version so I don't know if you can hear any difference. |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 12:03:49
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| Are you really sure that all production stopped in Japan 1991-92? |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 12:07:06
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No, I'm not. That's just an estimate.
The date may be as late as 1995. |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 12:21:43
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| Should be interesting to hear what boss freak and stinkfoot has to say of Japan/Taiwan, I suppose they�ve heard a lot of Boss-pedals "live". |
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boss freak
Gold Member
USA
663 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 15:20:48
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I think the MIJ vs MIT debate has valid points on both sides.
I've had discussions about this with recording engineers, technicians and other musicians and those that have opinions on the subject have either nothing to base their argument on or they have their ears and technical knowledge to base their opinions on.
My point of view on the debate is that it varies from pedal to pedal. By that I mean that it depends on whether the model's circuitry was revised. We know from other threads that the OD1 has several different versions. All are made in Japan yet all the versions have subtle sound differences. This logically holds true to other pedals such as the classic example of the DS1. The early MIJ versions sound different than the new MIT pedals because the circuit has been revised, even though the model number was not changed to reflect the revision. A good example to show that it may not make any difference at all is the HM2. A MIT HM2 compared to a MIJ HM2 sounds the same. There will always be very very slight differences in the sound and some variation will occur due to loose tolerance of electronic components but I highly doubt that the difference is even audible to human ears. I don't claim to be an electronics expert of any kind, but that's the way I see/hear it.  |
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arcanon1313
Silver Member
USA
414 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 18:08:23
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| I've A-B'd the BF-2 , one from Japan, and one from Taiwan. the MIJ is warmer sounding, whereas the MIT was brighter, and more metallic sounding. but i have a theroy that the MIJ pedals sound better because they are older and the parts inside have had time to age. maybe that is what contributes to the sound of the MIJ's. That and the revisions made to the circuts. |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 19:10:37
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That's a good point.
Component values will surely change a bit over many years and may affect the way the old pedals sound. |
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pawnshop_trash
Gold Member
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 01:10:31
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FWIW, I've A-B'd a recent (silver label) MIT SD-1 and a MIJ SD-1 (with a stock JRC 4558DD chip), and the recent MIT SD-1 sounded significantly worse to my ears (more cheesy, more tinny). maybe the initial MIT SD-1's (I've seen a MIT black label) sound okay, but the recent ones are inferior in my book.
....
I should add that my criticism of the recent MIT SD-1 almost exactly parallels arcanon1313's critique of the BF-2... the recent MIT SD-1 has a harsher-sounding (less musical) high end, brighter and more metallic. I also agree that it's possible that the components of MIJ SD-1's have simply aged nicely over the years, contributing to some of the difference. |
Edited by - pawnshop_trash on 06/22/2005 06:04:01 |
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boss freak
Gold Member
USA
663 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 15:09:56
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| I have a feeling that, again like the OD1 versions, there are some value changes in a few key components in some pedals that were still made after the changeover to the Taiwan factory. I'm not 100% certain about that, but it would make sense. I recently did a mod on a later version of the OD1 and some of the values that I was instructed to change were already valued at the recommended changes. Therefore I think it is safe to "assume" that Boss is continually tweaking the values of some capacitors and/or resistors in the long-running models that we all know and love. |
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arcanon1313
Silver Member
USA
414 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 20:49:56
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| I'm planing on getting a Newer SD-1 and sending it to have it modded by keeley. I hope that works. |
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pawnshop_trash
Gold Member
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 00:52:15
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arcanon1313, I've never ordered anything from Keeley, but with his reputation, I'm sure his work is top-notch. please do let us know how your Keeley-modified SD-1 turns out!
my only experience thus far with modded pedals has been thru Analog Man. In 2002 I bought a new SD-1 that was then modified by Analog Man (keeping the Boss-style asymmetrical clipping, as opposed to using Ibanez-style symmetrical clipping, which would make it a Tubescreamer clone), and it now sounds great -- smooth, very musical, and with more usuable effective range out of the tone knob. to my ears, the Analog Man SD-1 sounds slightly better than my stock MIJ SD-1 (more clear, if that makes sense), which enabled me to 'retire' my MIJ SD-1. |
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boss freak
Gold Member
USA
663 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 00:53:02
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| I think you'll be pleased with the Keeley pedal. I have one of his Tube Screamers and a DS1 with his mod recipe and they're great. |
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Topic |
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What happened when moving to Taiwan?
