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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
 Posted - 11/09/2009 : 12:35:53
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In later years many guitarist players prefer more or less handcrafted pedals with true bypass. The boutique market has exploded, and there are many of us who buys them, even if they usually are much more expensive. I think that this is true to bedroom players too.
What should Boss do to keep up with this trend?
Construction quality is great on Boss pedals, but they don�t have true bypass. How important is this to the market, now and in the future?
Should Boss build a �Elite� series, with true bypass and high quality components?
How important is it that Boss keep the original pedal housing (as it is a bit difficult to use them if one wants true bypass)?
In short; What will Boss need to do to keep up with the market?
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 13:45:18
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I've seen a lot of discussion about true-bypass..then i've read interviews with people like Pete Cornish(who designs all Dave Gilmour and other big name artists boards) who believes a good quality buffer is vital for big stages and long cable runs...Scott Henderson the jazz/rock guitarist has all true bypass on his pedalboard and is a big fan of it but he uses a high quality 4ft cable from his guitar to his board and a 10ft one to the amp...!! not feasible for everyone..i've seen boss pedals on boards of people like Jeff Beck,Joe Walsh,Mike Stern,Gilmour and lots of other players with good tone...what i do notice with these players is the boss pedals they use are the older models..not a lot,if any COSM stuff.... not to knock the COSM gear but as Goran pointed out there sems to be a big market for older,analogue designed gear from players especially when it comes to boosters/distortion/overdrives/fuzz..... but there also seems to be a growing market for modulation and delays as well..i don't want to start the digital/analogue debate again but i think it's unavoidable when talking about the newer Boss stuff..i like analogue for modulations.. and for delays i'm not so fussy i use two DD-3's and a XT PRO but the delays in the pro are mostly analogue sims except for the stereo and the ping pong ones..even the reveb sim is a analogue sim of a vintage reverb...  i know from my own experience especially for live work,i like a knob i can twist in a hurry..scrolling through parameters on a stage between songs isn't really an option plus for a guy like me who plays pub/clubs etc... where the audience can be on top of you spilling beer,falling in onto your gear..the boss stuff is the some of the toughest and the best..i can can personally attest to this... ...i do think boss could exploit a niche in the market when it comes to some of it's older stuff..if it was to re-issue a 'vintage series' i think it could be very sucessful.... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 11/09/2009 13:47:05 |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 13:51:08
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Thanks Franzoni, it�s not a discussion of new/vintage, analog/digital or true bypass/buffers I want, it�s more of a discussion of how will Boss meet requirements from the players, meet the trends.
To me, just like I think Franzoni points out, buffers are great for reducing cable interference, but we just need one buffer�.
The question is more; How does Boss, as a company producing quality pedals, surrvive on a market that have changed a lot over the last few years.
We all want that Boss survive of course, so let us give them some advice 
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Edited by - Goran on 11/09/2009 13:53:20 |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 14:15:38
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But Goran i think that is part of the reason players are going to boutique stuff as your OP originally pointed out and the digital/COSM debate unavoidable when looking at Boss and it's current output...Boss don't seem to be listening to anyone and just doing their own thing with the digital stuff where it obvious that a lot of players want older type sounds and pedals from the 60's/70's/80's ..look at the money that changes hands for a CE-1...even with all it's imperfections with input impedances for guitar.....i don't think a 'custom shop' for Boss is the way to go..i don't like it at Fender or Gibson etc..to me it just seems to be a way to screw more money out of loyal customers,one of my early posts on this forum was about a Rory Gallagher strat i used on a couple of gigs..a good guitar but not worth �3000... Fender cashing in... ..what i like about Boss is the fact i know that my DS-1 and Joe Satriani's one are probably exactly the same the same with my CE-2 and Andy Summers/Gilmours one....and if they get a keeley/analogman mod i can get the same if i want....personally i think a custom shop would sent out all the wrong messages,which is the way a lot of other big manufacturers seem to have gone to make more money...maybe a like i said a 'vintage series' and reissue some of the older stuff at reasonable prices alongside it's current output... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 11/09/2009 14:20:32 |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 14:28:27
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quote:
Originally posted by FRANZONI
But Goran i think that is part of the reason players are going to boutique stuff as your OP originally pointed out and the digital/COSM debate unavoidable when looking at Boss and it's current output...Boss don't seem to be listening to anyone and just doing their own thing with the digital stuff where it obvious that a lot of players want older type sounds and pedals from the 60's/70's/80's ..look at the money that changes hands for a CE-1...even with all it's imperfections with input impedances for guitar.....i don't think a 'custom shop' for Boss is the way to go..i don't like it at Fender or Gibson etc..to me it just seems to be a way to screw more money out of loyal customers,one of my early posts on this forum was about a Rory Gallagher strat i used on a couple of gigs..a good guitar but not worth �3000... Fender cashing in.....what i like about Boss is the fact i know that my DS-1 and Joe Satriani's one are probably exactly the same the same with my CE-2 and Andy Summers/Gilmours one....and if they get a keeley/analogman mod i can get the same if i want....personally i think a custom shop would sent out all the wrong messages,which is the way a lot of other big manufacturers seem to have gone to make more money...maybe a like i said a 'vintage series' and reissue some of the older stuff at reasonable prices alongside it's current output...
I agree Franzoni, and your answer on �What should Boss do� is in your post above, I think that�s a great way to go.
Boss has put out some not-so-good pedals the last years, eg DN-2, and some real bad ones, eg FZ-5. And both of them are digital.
An FZ-5 cost about the same as a good Fuzz Face clone, and to me the choice is easy.
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silvertone6120
Gold Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 14:39:38
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| I also think a "vintage reissue" series would/could be a good idea, just as long as they don't cut corners(such as Fender's reissue amps with printed circuit boards instead of point-to-point wiring...there is a difference). |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 16:06:45
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quote:
Originally posted by silvertone6120
I also think a "vintage reissue" series would/could be a good idea, just as long as they don't cut corners(such as Fender's reissue amps with printed circuit boards instead of point-to-point wiring...there is a difference).
YES! |
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ovrdrv123
Bronze Member
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 18:35:51
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Quite frankly, i don't think Boss needs to do anything to keep up with the boutique market. After all, Boss is the leading pedal Manufactuer and has the most devouted following crowd. I, myself, don't own any true bypass pedals, i geuss i haven't really seen any that have really convinced me enough to buy yet. But I will say that Visual Sound's homepage sports a video that states that they have a new kind of buffered wiring that beats true-bypass and hard-wire (creating up-roar from die-hard true bypass fans), Boss may do something of the like if they don't wanna follow in the footsteps of Digitech's Hard-Wire product line. Personally, I love the simple good old Boss compact pedals with plastic knobs and buffered wiring and FET switching  |
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Iversen
Bronze Member
Denmark
111 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 19:44:57
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The trends may come and go, Boss will remain right on top as the best selling pedal. They have a quality product that astill delivers and they have a very wide range of effects, so even if you don't like this Boss chorus, you can go with that Boss chorus and still be happy consumer.
This whole true bypass craze will most likely fade in a few years, we'll see way huge racks eventually and people will dump their wannabe-vintage gear by the truck load, who knows, maybe even that digital distortion they tried to sell us in the eighties will be the next craze? (nah, it's not gonna happen...)
The gearpage cork sniffers who'll pay and arm and a leg for the latest TS-808 clone are still only a very exclusive little crowd. The great majority of guitar players are still Joe Averages pedal wise who dig the product Boss offers because they just can't hear the difference when the band plays. And quite honestly...
My own board consist of a little of this and a little of that: Boss, Danelectro, TC, Fulltone, T-Rex, Emma, Budda. |
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ovrdrv123
Bronze Member
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 21:41:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Iversen
My own board consist of a little of this and a little of that: Boss, Danelectro, TC, Fulltone, T-Rex, Emma, Budda.
i use to hate dan-electro products but they are starting to grow on me. i only hated them because of the cheap plastic chasis and knob location of the pedal but they do have a good sound |
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zerksies
Double Platinum Member
USA
3406 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 23:05:46
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| I will take anything new.the time it takes boss to release something is forever |
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Mansun
Gold Member
Spain
564 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2009 : 01:07:07
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Isn't that what Maxon/Ibanez has done previously? They re-released the old pedals at a very high cost, i.e. the phaser costs around 230 euro if you buy it new from Maxon, while you can get the original Ibanez for less than 90 � on ebay with box and instructions.
Franzoni (I think) said people prefered old vintage effects rather than the new ones, but I'm not sure if it's because they're old and valuable more than their supposed higher quality. |
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Disco Stu
Silver Member
USA
303 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2009 : 03:33:56
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As a Futurist who has seen the whole world evolve from Tubes through Transistors through VLSIC's and further, I think the pedal world will follow a similar course of evolution as the digital recording trend in the last twenty years.
We started that with VHS and Beta formats of digital, went to DAT and CDR, and have now evolved past Hard Drive Recording onto Flash-Drive Media.
I've played around a little with the PC-based effect modeling software and can only expect effects to evolve into Flash-RAM based modelers that allow much parameter tweaking through a GUI. It will still be in the Boss-Box physical format, but with some combination of knobs and a LED - LCD menu.
I'm well aware that there are many multi-effect boxes on the market, but I see future effects having a blend of analog stomp-box durability with flash-RAM tweakability.
No doubt some of the people on this forum are already working on stuff like that. And I'll always treasure my old SD-1's and tube amps.
But that seems like the next step in the Stomp-Box evolution.
Later
--Disco Stu |
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chrissydamage
Silver Member
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2009 : 03:34:06
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I don't think Boss is really bothered by the boutique 'phenomenon' at all- theres a huge market for inexpensive but good quality pedals too and Boss has a product to fit almost every budget, every playing style, every skill level etc etc......
Boutiques are about high cost and low volume, Boss is about the exact opposite.......
The 'vintage reissue' series is a great idea, but they'd never be hand made by Boss- I think the best we could hope for is them putting some of the discontinued ones back into production again as MITs with slight revisions......
True bypass just sounds a bit unnecessary in my opinion, I read somewhere here where someone described it as hifi geekism crossing over into guitars and I think thats very true- how many people really buy an effects pedal to marvel at how amazing it sounds when its switched OFF?
Some do, sure; but probably not the majority of Boss's target market, I'd been playing for many years before I even heard of the true bypass concept
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2009 : 09:13:22
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I agree on the true bypass thing...personally i think it's a bit OTT and not needed especially if it's going to put the cost of a Boss pedal throught the roof...Pete Cornish makes the boards of a lot of my guitar heroes and if he thinks a good buffer like a boss pedal is the way to go,who am i to argue... plus like is said in my OP,other heroes of mine like Joe Walsh use a huge Boss pedalboard straight into the amp with no problems... the Maxon story is slightly different to Boss...Maxon made pedals for Ibanez and they went out under the Ibanez brand..you can (i think) still get the Ibanez versions cheaper than the Maxon ones..Maxon are going with the angle of they still make them with the original components in Japan like the originals ..hence the pricetag....Boss has never given that option to customers..possibly i'm a bit of a old fart but when it comes to modulation stuff,to me analogue wins hands down...what brought it home to me was my Dynacord Leslie unit..no digital sim i've ever tried comes close to to warmth of this effect...i like digital for delays and reverbs due to the amount of maintainance an tube echo would cost in time and money plus the noise... also a good example was when Dr Bob talked me into(by email) driving for an hour outside of Dublin to chase down a CE-2 going for �100 euro...when i got there it was a black label MIJ... the difference between that and my CH-1 was amazing..also did the same for trip in a different direction my BF-2 and i've never regretted it for one minute...thanks Dr B......even with my new rig i've been unwilling and unable to leave the CE-2 off(it's been on the board since i got it) and recently re-added the BF-2 as well,mainly due to seeing Jeff Beck during the summer and hearing his BF-2 on a few numbers and my TR-2 is also a staple of my live rig...a Jap reissue of some selected older models would IMHO be a big seller for Boss..i realise they couldn't sell them for the same price as the new stuff but maybe somewhere between Ibanez vs Maxon price tags and they could be on a winner....not dissing the digital lovers as i use digital stuff myself for some thing but some of us out here in guitarland still like BBD technology...usually were the ones with the amps that still use a technology that was around in the time of Noah.......now if boss decided to make a tube driven CE-2...hmmmm.....  ...... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 11/10/2009 09:22:15 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2009 : 17:15:46
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quote:
Originally posted by FRANZONI
a Jap reissue of some selected older models would IMHO be a big seller for Boss...
I keep sayin' it. Maybe one day... |
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Boss on the market place
