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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
 Posted - 05/07/2007 : 17:49:49
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hi all....i have put T.A.D tonebones in my marshall head to drop the wattage,basically what they do is let you replace the el 34 output valves with el 84's like a vox ac30...the problem i have is i have two vintage 30's in the 2x12 that i use with it,these are a 60 watt speakers with a higher efficency rating than the old greenbacks i have in storage...i'm not too good on the theory end of these matters but in my mind putting the two greenbacks into the 2x12 should drop the volume down even more as the wattage is 25 apiece against the vintage 30's 60 watts each,and i think that the sound pressure levels is lower in the older speakers as well...thanks for any help on this....... |
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jack
Platinum Member
USA
1418 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 19:26:19
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I always thought the wattages had to deal with what kind of load they can tolerate before blowing up or something. I may be wrong on this, but there is no wattage in the speakers, its just a rating on how far you can push it. I think putting lower wattage rated speakers just means that the speaker will "break-up" easier at lower volumes, but I don't think it will cut the volume down significantly, it might just affect how soon your speakers get that
nice tube break up. I may be wrong, but thats how I understand it.
Just make sure you get the ohms right and the re-wiring of the speakers, then maybe if there is a volume drop, maybe you can mess around with the cabs wiring, as you can probably get some different tones from either series or parallel wiring of your speakers.... |
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Dirk
Platinum Member
Netherlands
1309 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 17:03:56
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I agree with Jack on this, greenbacks break up earlier and wattage is just a rating on how much power they can handle, btw vintage 30's are rated 70 watts, just for the record.
They do sound a little different, it's just a matter of personal taste and yes the vintage 30's "sound" louder due to a higher sound pressure level (rated in dB/watts).
Good luck with it. |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 19:23:20
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thank lads for the replies... maybe i should of explained it better... your both on the money as i'm trying to get a dirty/crunch sound with the amp/speaker combination.....the tonebones pull the marshall's output stage down to about 32 watts or thereabouts from the 100 watts it would normally put out with the el 34's...so it was in my mind that combined with a less effecient speakers i could drive the amp from the guitar without deafening everyone in the pub.....i'm gonna do this before our first gig on friday so i'll let you all know how it works out.... |
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jack
Platinum Member
USA
1418 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 19:40:11
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Definitely let us know how it works out. I am just getting into speaker cabs myself after coverting a dead combo amp into a speaker cab for an Epiphone Valve Junior Head, as seen here:
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Edited by - jack on 05/08/2007 20:59:15 |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 08:11:41
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Hi Jack
Nice... I like the stickers as well. 
Those Epiphone Valve Juniors, are very loud for 5 watts.
I have been waiting for the local music shop to some in.
I missed out on a recent sale,
where they were $261.00Au including shipping.
But I have read that you should get version 2 of the amp, as there was a hum design flaw in the first versions.
Regards Dr. Bob |
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jack
Platinum Member
USA
1418 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 17:22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Bob
Hi Jack
Nice... I like the stickers as well.
Those Epiphone Valve Juniors, are very loud for 5 watts.
I have been waiting for the local music shop to some in.
I missed out on a recent sale,
where they were $261.00Au including shipping.
But I have read that you should get version 2 of the amp, as there was a hum design flaw in the first versions.
Regards Dr. Bob
Thanks Dr. Platinum I got those stickers custom made awhile back, and they seemed to look good on the cab. I am looking for something to replace the CRATE logo though.
The Valve Junior is loud, but the head I got is Version 2, cause there is no hum. The combo I got is Version 1 because it sounds like a bug zapper is on. I know there are mods you can do to them t get them to stop, but for now I'm a bit apprehensive about amp mods/work cause of shock risks. However, I plan on taking some electronics courses in the fall, so I'll probably make it quiet soon.... |
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ronster
Gold Member
Australia
645 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 06:56:53
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Hey jack
I just like how you have your Crate resint on a crate! 
That just cracks me up!  |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 08:39:52
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quote:
Originally posted by jack
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Bob
Hi Jack
Nice... I like the stickers as well.
Those Epiphone Valve Juniors, are very loud for 5 watts.
I have been waiting for the local music shop to some in.
I missed out on a recent sale,
where they were $261.00Au including shipping.
But I have read that you should get version 2 of the amp, as there was a hum design flaw in the first versions.
Regards Dr. Bob
Thanks Dr. Platinum I got those stickers custom made awhile back, and they seemed to look good on the cab. I am looking for something to replace the CRATE logo though.
The Valve Junior is loud, but the head I got is Version 2, cause there is no hum. The combo I got is Version 1 because it sounds like a bug zapper is on. I know there are mods you can do to them t get them to stop, but for now I'm a bit apprehensive about amp mods/work cause of shock risks. However, I plan on taking some electronics courses in the fall, so I'll probably make it quiet soon....
Hi Jack
Dr. Platinum ......... oohh I Like That..
I would never have come up with that one.
I guess I should go & register it on the Forum, before someone else does ..
There are a few pictorial mods that i saw on the web, showing you how to mod the version 1 amp to get rid of the hum.
Regards, Dr. Bob, Alias Dr. Platinum... sort of make me feel all evil & stuff.
What's that old saying?
Now if he only used his knowledge for good, instead of evil.......
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 14:29:01
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hi all...i gigged with the new set up last night and the plus side was that the sound was super....the amp sounded great but the downside was the lack of clean headroom at a useable volume because i play a lot of rythmn guitar as well as lead...if we were just doing blues or rock it would be fine but we cover all types of material in our set,and it still was a bit loud for the venue.... in fact to tell the truth at the break i plugged in the singers little 65 watt combo and used my trusty od2 for overdrive for the rest of the gig,those old non master volume marshalls even with the valve converters are loud and i only had the amp volume on halfway..!! this thing with the el84's in it is supposed to be only putting out 30 watts.... now i know why people love AC 30's....and i missed my stereo setup.... it is suprising that i never realised how big a sound i was getting with the two amps off the ch1....were only a four piece and if the singer is playing harp or doesn't play acoustic on a song it helps to fill out the sound....it was an experiment that i'm glad i tried but i will probably build a second 2x12 for the greenbacks for myself to buzz on out in the shed....and if we start getting as many gigs as before i am going to retire the marshall and the musicman and probably buy a couple of rivera's i.e the pubster 45 or similar for portability.....
Dr Bob...or as your evil alter ego...Dr Platinum....do you have a 2ft sidekick called mini me and is your house/lab in oz in the shape of a skull...???......... |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 17:18:05
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Hi FRANZONI
Good gigging story FRANZONI, and interesting info about your new set up.
As far as low power amps go, my fender 75 is switchable down to 15 watt mode, I have never had the Master Vol, over about 4, at:
2 it's loud, at
2.5 my ears start to hurt, at
3 I usually get yelled at, to turn it down, at
4 The band stops bringing me  's
For mega clean headroom, like one expects from a Fender, I switch it back to 75 Watt mode, and have the master at about 2.5, & I back off the volume on the guitar -- A LOT.
Having a Compressor - or limiter, can help a lot.
But sometimes you JUST NEED POWER. (sorry, that's the evil Dr. Me)
You wrote:
Dr Bob...or as your evil alter ego...Dr Platinum....do you have a 2ft sidekick called mini me and is your house/lab in oz in the shape of a skull...???.........
For O-N-E...M--I--L--L--ION DOLLARS, I'll tell you.
I might even post my Google Earth coordinates, for you to see..
Speaking of Mini Me, how is the lovely wife with Mini Franzoni?
Don't forget to let us all know, when your a dad -- Again.....
Regards Dr. Bob
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Edited by - Dr. Bob on 05/12/2007 17:19:01 |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 20:47:13
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Dr Bob.. i checked out your fender 75 on the web..is your one a combo or a head...?
looks like a cool amp...i think these were some of the last point to point wired amps that fender produced,and i suspect these were some of the paul rivera designed amps when he was at fender...a lot of his own amps feature those push pull pots.....the switch down to 15 watts is really handy as well...hold onto that one doc that a good 'un...i would never sell my musicman combo,the marshall or the selmer but hopefully in the next couple of months i'll pick up a couple of rivera pubsters,from what i have read bang for buck they are good solid amps in a decent enough price range..i can get them of the net in a shop in germany with free shipping for about 959 euro each....before mrs franzoni spends all my money on a new moses basket and buggy,not to mention a new car.......better ring the boss and see if there is any overtime going on.....
p.s the new arrival is due in july ..around the 25th.... |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2007 : 15:44:02
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quote:
Originally posted by FRANZONI
Dr Bob.. i checked out your fender 75 on the web..is your one a combo or a head...?
looks like a cool amp...i think these were some of the last point to point wired amps that fender produced,and i suspect these were some of the paul rivera designed amps when he was at fender...a lot of his own amps feature those push pull pots.....the switch down to 15 watts is really handy as well...hold onto that one doc that a good 'un...i would never sell my musicman combo,the marshall or the selmer but hopefully in the next couple of months i'll pick up a couple of rivera pubsters,from what i have read bang for buck they are good solid amps in a decent enough price range..i can get them of the net in a shop in germany with free shipping for about 959 euro each....before mrs franzoni spends all my money on a new moses basket and buggy,not to mention a new car.......better ring the boss and see if there is any overtime going on.....
p.s the new arrival is due in july ..around the 25th....
Hi FRANZONI
Mine is the combo with the 12 inch speaker.
The Rectifier is the only solid state part of the amp.
On all other accounts about it, you are correct.
It also came in a 15 inch & 2 by 10 combo.
Paul Rivera, did design these amps, in the series, there was a Fender 30 the 75 and a 140.
I got mine faulty of course, the low 15 watt setting sounded like a big load of farts, (really) when you tried to strum some chords.
An afternoon in Dr. Bob's old workshop fixed it, just like new.
And yes - price wise it was a steal.
I finally found the schematics for the foot switches, they aren't standard Fender simple switching.
But they are standard Revira switches, with twin stereo jacks on them.
I am 50% of the way there, to completing & housing them.
It was Fenders attempt at the Mesa Boogie higher gain market, as they we loosing some market share to Mesa, at the time.
And I think it was a direct competitor, to the Mesa IIB or IIC, at the time.
I has a cool overdrive channel, that I once managed to get it to switch to, with some clip on leads, & it will probably make me stop using pedals , once it's all happening.
Best sounding amp I've ever owned & played, so it's unlikely that I'll get rid of it.
It has what's called Ultra-linear output transformer & output stage, I know some Die hard Fender users, don't like these amps.
it has all the Mojo Blackface clean tone, & it's very quiet, Unless the filter caps go leaky.
I will be interested to hear all about the Rivera Pubsters, when you get them, maybe upload a couple of pic's as well.
You wrote:
before mrs franzoni spends all my money on a new moses basket and buggy,not to mention a new car...
I guess you could use the buggy & car to cart you new equipment around..
Regards Dr. Bob  |
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changing guitar speakers......
