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chrissydamage
Silver Member
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
 Posted - 07/03/2009 : 23:54:18
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Wondering if someone could help me here;
I have been collecting Boss compacts for a while, and I now realise there is a huge disparity in terms of sound and quality between Boss pedals independent of the country of origin but manufactured at different dates.
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A trio of DS-1 here,
MIT SL left;
MIT BL middle
MIJ '84 BL right
To my ears the MIT BL sounds the best; although the MIJ '84 has much less noise/hiss (much much less) but also it seems noticeably less gain.
The SL MIT is rather noisy and much more 'twangy' like SD-1 esque
Got 2 more DS-1s in transit en route to me, one silver screw and one black also
I don't trust my own ears anymore; I am therefore going to analyse every Boss compact pedal ever made and share my findings with the internet. I want to sample every single batch of every single Boss compact pedal ever made and provide the following:
i/ 44.1kHz Samples of </= 10 guitar chops for each species and genus, ie: A single note (bridge, neck p/u); High A(b,n) Am chord (b,n); silent(b,n); A drill(b,n); A Heavy palm mute drill(b/n) etc etc etc
ii/ A visual representation of each specimen, in terms of a visual spectrograph or graphic eq / oscillator snapshot or something (the ultimate Boss guide has a good section, but samples a 1kHz sine wave from an oscillator which is a bit random :S)
iii/Photographs of each example inside and out; I know nothing of electronics but someone else out there might want to know ;)
iv) anything else anyone can suggest
Equipment will be:
Guitar into-
Behringer V amp Pro (rack version, 96 kHz 24 bit digital out) into-
Akai CD3000XL Sampler (each lick will be sampled direct 44.1kHz)into-
Pedal into-
Behringer U control audio interface into-
Acer Laptop (4GB Ram 2.0 Gz Dual Core Vista home basic)
Official Boss PSU/Patch leads etc will be used
Basically I need to know the following:
1/ What software is best for sampling direct from the U control in WAV format? Ideally free ones, for short 2-4 sec max samples :)
2/ What software could give me a visual output (ie a nice coloured bar or line graph) to be able to compare MIJ/MIT/BL/SL/GL etc etc and then save and share with the world
3/Who has any pedals that I can buy, anything of interest that is not sold anymore for the experiment (people in N America?). Road wear is fine. $70 ish min Ship to U.K. (Plese PM me with offers, I'll let you know if I'm interested)
Very much thanks to Mr Bossarea also for a great site; really a fountain of knowledge!!
Any suggestions on how to tackle this task from anyone would be much appreciated
Many thanks to you all in anticipation;
Chris
xxxx
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Edited by - Dr. Bob on 07/04/2009 15:03:46 |
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DasBeef
Gold Member
United Kingdom
704 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2009 : 00:50:15
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Welcome to the forum. I can't exactly answer your question, but I can give you my own experience.
I have 3 DS-1's. I have a long dash MIJ, a short dash MIJ, and a much later MIT pedal. To my ears, ther is absoloutely no comparison between the MIJ and MIT's. My long dash MIJ is the best out of all of them. It has a seems to have a bit more volume, and a tad bit more gain than the short dash MIJ. That aside, the sound pretty identical. I sometimes wonder of this was due to different batteries when A/B-ing them. As for the MIT, it does not have a look in with the MIJ pedals. Sounds completely different. The MIJ pedals sound organic, and natural, where as the MIT pedal sounds processes and 'fake'.
The setup I tested them with was a USA strat, and an epiphone valve junior. I will also add that the MIJ DS-1 is probably my favourite pedal(s) I currently own. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2009 : 02:50:41
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Hi chrissydamage
Welcome to the forum from Australia.
WOW is all I can say - That's one ambitious project.
Good Luck with all your effort.
May I comment on running the tests into the:
Behringer V amp Pro (rack version, 96 kHz 24 bit digital out).
It may color your tests, it you have some type of amp emulation on.
Unless you are looking to get that kind of a result.
I have an XV-Amp & while it has some good emulations, it does color
the sound of my guitars.
Good in some ways & not so good in other ways.
There is HEAPS of buried info on the various incarnations of Boss Pedals,
Here on the forum, if you go digging deep.
As an example, when I was repairing Hateandwar's MT-2 recently.
Laurie & I discovered that there are at least
(3) different version of the MT-2.
This was uncommon knowledge as far as I'm aware.
And even the humble DS-1 has undergone various incarnations of op-amp & minor circuit changes.
(5 or 6) at last count, I did post a table of changes somewhere back in the dim dark ages.
The OD-1 is the same to some lesser extent.
Please keep us up to date with all your findings.
Regards Dr. Bob 
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chrissydamage
Silver Member
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2009 : 10:39:08
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Thanks guys;
Very good point about the V amp colour Dr Bob; I had planned to use it only on the tube amp setting with everything on max and all effects off (all the other emulation settings are rubbish IMO)
But I think this highlights the need for different samples for clean and drive channel amps certainly.
Would I be better off using the line out of a Marshall into the Akai do you reckon? (or guitar straight into the Akai even?) I can't use mic'd cabs because that will be another variable that will change from sample to sample - anyone ever tried recording via line out before?
btw yes I have noticed also differences with the MT-2, my mates original one he bought in '92 sounds miles better than any of the ones I own; used to really annoy me in band practise because he really can't play very well and gave up many years ago but his tone totally destroys me everytime!! He sounds like Pantera sans music lessons. I will be examining MT-2's as part of this project!!
Dasbeef I agree with your findings; cant wait for the long dash's to arrive now :D one question though; are you using as a booster on the drive channel of your epi or going commando?
My current fave is the long dash silver screw OD-1 (d i believe)
It is just the most fantastic piece of engineering I have ever encountered. I really wasn't expecting it at all; the short dash MIJ OD-1e sounds quite unremarkable and I was expecting the same from this. My jaw just hit the floor upon hearing it; it is totally amazing, unbelievable, like witnessing a talking dog or something. Words fail me, I am still gobsmacked from the experience!! |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2009 : 14:49:54
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Hi chrissydamage
Any chance of some internal pics of your SS OD-1.
Have you checked to see which op-amp it uses?
And if it's the 4558, is it the D or the DD suffix version?
I will add the display HTML code snipped to show the pic in your first post.
When uploading pics, please resize them to around 100-300K in size.
Regards Dr. Bob |
Edited by - Dr. Bob on 07/04/2009 14:54:38 |
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DasBeef
Gold Member
United Kingdom
704 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2009 : 15:18:16
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quote:
Originally posted by chrissydamage
Dasbeef I agree with your findings; cant wait for the long dash's to arrive now :D one question though; are you using as a booster on the drive channel of your epi or going commando?
It's the 5w Epi Valve Junior. It has no channels, or drive control. Only a volume and an on/off switch.
When A/B-ing I only had the DS-1 I was testing plugged in, and dialled in the same settings on each, and swapped them out. |
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chrissydamage
Silver Member
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2009 : 18:21:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Bob
Hi chrissydamage
Any chance of some internal pics of your SS OD-1.
Have you checked to see which op-amp it uses?
And if it's the 4558, is it the D or the DD suffix version?
Repaired quote syntax - Moderator
>>http://s616.photobucket.com/albums/tt247/ChrissyDamage/
Check it out, I have borderline OD-1s.
OD-1D Apr 1980, NEC4558C (first ever one this chip)SS BL inked S/N
OD-1E Nov 1981, NEC4558C BS BL paper S/N
They both have the same chips, but the design is totally different if you compare the 2 boards. I'm no electrician, but the OD-1D is much busier and has more componants. Boss must have saved quite a bit in componant cost and labour when implementing this change I guess
The sound difference is huge between the 2 to my ears:
OD-1D is absolutely wonderful. As a booster it produces the sort of tone that could smash down walls; more grunt than a V8 on full bore. The harder you push it, the more glorious the sound. Awesome, just awesome.
OD-1E is comparatively limp. Its good but its just not quite right. Actually prefer OD-3 to OD-1E; but the OD-1D just laughs at the pair of them in my opinion; what a difference a few cheap componants can make!! :)
Now I have to work out how to get my hands on the other 10(?) versions of these and also work out how to actually measure the results so I can prove the differences.
Can we tempt any out of the woodwork? Maybe $150 of American currency might tempt some of the lesser spotted little yellow critters out of their little hidey holes :)
PM me let me know what you got I'll let you know if im interested :)
Cheers |
Edited by - Dr. Bob on 07/05/2009 02:42:50 |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 02:47:28
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Hi chrissydamage
Any chance you might have taken a side by side pic,
of the component sides of the OD-1's?
It's easier to compare the differences that way.
Regards Dr. Bob
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Boss Analysis Please Help DS-1 OD-1 MIJ MIT etc
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