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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
 Posted - 11/20/2007 : 17:12:38
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Avast Matey! Unfurl the top sails. It's time for a lead solo. 
Strato; I thought everyone knew about that song. I didn't even know that Prism was a Canadian band till now.
Franzoni; is that how the amps with 2 different output levels work, they just switch one pair of output tubes out of circuit?
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Edited by - pedals 4 pv on 11/20/2007 19:25:35 |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2007 : 19:26:29
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quote:
Originally posted by pedals 4 pv
Avast Matey! Unfurl the top sails. It's time for a lead solo.
Strato; I thought everyone knew about that song. I didn't even know that Prism was a Canadian band till now.
Franzoni; is that how the amps with 2 different output levels work, they just switch one pair of output tubes out of circuit?
"Reveille, reveille, heave out, trice up, lash and stow, lash and stow!" |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2007 : 10:07:21
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quote:
Originally posted by pedals 4 pv
Avast Matey! Unfurl the top sails. It's time for a lead solo.
Strato; I thought everyone knew about that song. I didn't even know that Prism was a Canadian band till now.
Franzoni; is that how the amps with 2 different output levels work, they just switch one pair of output tubes out of circuit?
keef richards was in the last pirates of the caribbean movie so perhaps he could give you a few pointers when it comes to playing electric guitar on sailing ships.....
i'm not quite sure i understand the question on the 2 different levels of amp output ..as far as i know ..no amp shuts off output valves as a attenuator for output volume....some amps have a switch to lower the overall volume down from say 50 watts to 10 or so .... DeFrag might be able to shed more light on this as i think a lot of the mesa/boogie amps have this facility these days for playing at home..... to be honest i have played with only two output valves and it doesn't really lower the overall volume that much,what it does do is let the amp grt into a more overdriven sound quicker but IMHO there is other factors to take into account such as speaker efficency etc....when i put my T.A.D tonebones(similar to THD yellowjackets) into my marshall 100 watt superbass head it should of brought the volume down to 32 watts but i changed the speakers from greenbacks to vintage 30's at the same time and later found out that the vintage 30 is a much more efficent speaker...!! i tried as an experiment to put the greenbacks back in the cab and crank the amp only using my strat..it was still way to loud for the normal pub gig... and not really adaptable enough for the stuff i have to cover during a gig...great for blues and rock though.... ... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 11/21/2007 10:22:39 |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2007 : 22:23:18
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From my Mesa Roadster manual:
"RECTIFIER SELECT with TUBE-TRACKING: ...It incorporates a Rectifier Tracking� feature that insures proper voltage is present at all times and improves reliability. This switch operates in tandem with the individual Channel Power Select (50/100) switch located in each Channel Strip. The Rectifier Tracking feature monitors the Channels, determines their power status and automatically selects the proper rectifier type - which ultimately assures the best sound. This provides optimization of the power settings, delivering a magical tube-rectified power-sag vibe for the channel set to 50 watts - and a tighter, bolder 100 watts of diode-rectified authority for the channel set to full power...
DIODE: Calls up the silicon diode rectifier, which offers more punch, a tighter attack with more brightness and substantially more headroom. This rectifier choice provides the highest power and therefor the tightest rectification. This setting would be best for any application where maximum headroom is needed or tight bass response is called for. Situations that usually require this are clean rhythm playing or extreme high gain crunch rhythm sounds.
RECTO TUBE-TRACKING: Each channel features the ability to choose between the saggy bounce of the 5U4 Rectifier Tubes or the tight, bold authority of the Silicon Diodes. Selecting RECTO TRACKING brings on-line one 5U4 when in 50 watts and two 5U4s
when 100 watts is selected."
A bit too much info but bottom-line for me as I understand things:
50W setting (tubes) = warmer with less headroom for lower volume playing
100W setting (diodes) = maximum headroom & clean punch at higher volumes
OT but I absolutley LOVE the Eminence speakers in Fender amps. |
Edited by - DeFrag on 11/21/2007 22:27:49 |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 02:29:03
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So Franzoni, the removal of a pair is only an emergency procedure just to be used until you can get a new tube. One of those "old pro tricks of the trade", like the magic six setting Dr. Bob mentioned. I would assume that the life of the single remaining pair would be reduced if you used it that way for an extended time.
DeFrag, I am impressed by the manual for the Mesa, nice simple laymans language. That really clears things up for me.
The classic 30 is good and loud for at home, and I am using the mini mixer on my pedalboard to cut down the input signal so I can crank the amp and let it distort. If plug directly in from my Les Paul I cant turn it much past 2 or it's way too loud for the small room. I am thinking of putting a volume pedal in the effects loop but I don't know if that will work, and must research this further. If anyone has tried this let me know. I don't want to try it until I know that it works and wont hurt the amp.
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 10:53:35
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| can you not turn the master down a little for home practice...? pre amp valve distortion isn't all bad...it's just that power amp distortion gives a bit more body to the sound......pulling two of the output tubes shouldn't do any real harm if you want to experiment and see if it makes a difference,but as you have correctly guessed,pushing your valves in this way will shorten their lifespan...the good thing about EL84's is that compared to other output valves they are fairly cheap to replace....like i said before if you do this,pull the inside two or the outside two together to keep the power amp section 'balanced'..... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 11/22/2007 10:54:24 |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 18:05:21
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I'd normally run the main output (power tubes) fairly wide open with the channel masters down low. Sure, preamp gain will be low but running the tubes hotter would ensure that old-school sound I bought tubes for in the first place.
Lest we not forget attenuators like the Marshall Power Brake or the THD Hotplate. I'm seriously considering picking one of these units up. Then I can run my channels a bit hotter in addition to the mains, yet keep the volume at a respectable level.  |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 19:33:05
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| Your pretty lucky in the states DeFrag that you have some choice in gear like attenuators...i don't want to repeat speculation or rumour but to be honest i would stay away from the marshall power brake. i've read some reports of burnt out tranformers after using it....THD or groove tubes are supposed to make some good units and there is another maker i've heard off called ultimate..i saw doyle bramhall II using two of their units with his marshall superbass heads when he was playing with clapton a while back..i think there is a review of them on.. www.tonequest.com .... the most important thing is that you hook up attenuators like ext speaker cabs with good quality speaker cables and not guitar leads,this could of been the problem with people using the marshall unit ,i don't know... all i know is that using guitar leads to connect up any speaker out of the back of a valve amp is gonna get expensive in burnt out power amp valves and possibly a burnt out output tranny..... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 11/22/2007 19:38:38 |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 22:34:58
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Features! We don't need no stinking features!
The classic 30 has a Volume control knob for the normal channel and Pre and Post for the lead, but no Master Volume. Reverb, Bass, Mid and Treble are the only other knobs on it. Seven knobs, seven tubes pretty straight forward. I do wish it had a standby switch, but it is not that big of a deal. If I know that I am only going to play for a few minutes I just use the old solid state amp. I now have three Peavey amps and the common thread is VOLUME. Peavey amps can go loud. I guess the Hartley Peavey train of thought was anything extra that reduces volume is of marginal value. |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 23:06:00
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| I've heard some things re: the Power Brakes as well & would probably go for the THD. They have different units depending on your speaker configuration for impedance matching. But tks for cluing me in just in case |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 00:48:44
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quote:
Originally posted by DeFrag
I've heard some things re: the Power Brakes as well & would probably go for the THD. They have different units depending on your speaker configuration for impedance matching. But tks for cluing me in just in case
Don't get me wrong, simple and loud are good qualities |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2007 : 10:00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by pedals 4 pv
Features! We don't need no stinking features!
The classic 30 has a Volume control knob for the normal channel and Pre and Post for the lead, but no Master Volume. Reverb, Bass, Mid and Treble are the only other knobs on it. Seven knobs, seven tubes pretty straight forward. I do wish it had a standby switch, but it is not that big of a deal. If I know that I am only going to play for a few minutes I just use the old solid state amp. I now have three Peavey amps and the common thread is VOLUME. Peavey amps can go loud. I guess the Hartley Peavey train of thought was anything extra that reduces volume is of marginal value.
Hi pedals 4 pv
It's nice to be a convert, isn't it?
Regards Dr. Bob |
Edited by - Dr. Bob on 11/27/2007 14:42:56 |
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jack
Platinum Member
USA
1418 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2007 : 15:42:47
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quote:
Originally posted by pedals 4 pv
Features! We don't need no stinking features!
Thats why I wish there was a bigger version of an Epiphone Valve Junior Head, I like the fact that the Epi VJ just has an input and a volume knob on the front, and whould go apesh t if they put out a 15-25watt version of the head. Until they do though, I am planning on building something like that eventually... |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2007 : 09:52:07
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quote:
Thats why I wish there was a bigger version of an Epiphone Valve Junior Head, I like the fact that the Epi VJ just has an input and a volume knob on the front, and whould go apesht if they put out a 15-25watt version of the head. Until they do though, I am planning on building something like that eventually...
Jack,
If The Orange Tiny Terror only had a price that was a Tiny bit less Terrible |
Edited by - pedals 4 pv on 11/28/2007 10:02:44 |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2007 : 10:01:07
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quote:
Hi pedals 4 pv
It's nice to be a convert, isn't it?
Regards Dr. Bob
Dr. Bob, I saw the light when I seen the glow
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Edited by - pedals 4 pv on 11/28/2007 10:34:53 |
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Tube amp advice needed
