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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
 Posted - 11/28/2007 : 10:51:40
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quote:
Originally posted by pedals 4 pv
quote:
Hi pedals 4 pv
It's nice to be a convert, isn't it?
Regards Dr. Bob
Dr. Bob, I saw the light when I seen the glow 
Hi pedals 4 pv
Not only really  
But profoundly truthful.
Regards Dr. Bob |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 15:45:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Bob
quote:
Originally posted by pedals 4 pv
quote:
Hi pedals 4 pv
It's nice to be a convert, isn't it?
Regards Dr. Bob
Dr. Bob, I saw the light when I seen the glow
Hi pedals 4 pv
Not only really
But profoundly truthful.
Regards Dr. Bob
Another profound truth of this glow is... to put this lovely picture back inside the power amp section of my musicman(4 x EL34) is going to cost about 100 euro including a new 12ax7 inverter valve....thats one of the slight probs with those old musicman amps,when the splitter/inverter valve goes south it can take the power amp section with it..... but this is the first time it's happened to me and i have the amp 20 years ..... but it is a nice picture isn't it......... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 12/09/2007 15:46:58 |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 23:00:05
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| That's a shame Franzoni, are you going to put yellow jackets and el84's in it like the Selmer, or do you need the higher output of the el34's? Does it give any warning, or is it just boom your done? |
Edited by - pedals 4 pv on 12/10/2007 01:13:07 |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 11:22:58
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no i tried putting the valve converters out of the marshall in it when i got it first but it didn't like them at all,it's a master volume amp so i suppose i don't really need them in it anyway so i will put EL 34's and a new 12ax7 splitter in the next few days,the good news to come out of this is this i found a local electricial supplies warehouse that have jj valves/tubes listed as in stock on their website so i'm gonna swing into them in the next few days and pick some up if they have the on the shelf..as for warning on imminent meltdown..yes the amp started making funny crackling noises and when i investigated it all the power amp valves were 'red plating' by that i mean the metal piece inside the valve was actually red hot..... ... i had heard of this but never actually seen it before... i suppose the warning signs were there i blew a couple of power amp valves in the last few months and the amp was a bit crackly.... the selmer is a 2 X EL84 based amp in design and it's the same output as a blues jr about 15 watts.... |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 13:55:20
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pedals4pv..i thought you might be interested in a few pics of the selmer 'bro.... it's been through the wars a bit,one of the previous owners stripped the tolex of the amp i think in an effort to make it look a bit like an old fender..shame as the original blue and grey colour scheme was pretty cool..the internal pics are of the power amp section,the pre amp section is in the top of the amp under the tone controls whrer all the pre amp valves are..it also has real tube tremolo and it sounds very sweet...i didn't have time to take the pre amp section out for a photo i'm afraid....if you check the right hand side of the internal pic of the output section you can see the power cord is all melted and blackened..i think this happened when one of the EL 84'S went south..normally when this happens it takes the amps fuse with it ,but the previous owner had a 3 amp fuse and it didn't blow..... any valve amp i ever had the biggest fuse in it was a 2 amp slo-blo..so for anyone out there be very careful with valve/tube amps as they can be lethal if your poking around inside and touch the wrong thing or use the wrong fuses..never wrap tinfoil around the fuse to keep the amp working..if the fuse keeps blowing there is something wrong and needs to be investigated...more than likely a valve on it's way out... BTW i dropped a couple of jj el 84's into it and first impressions is they sound pretty good..i'm seriously thinking of picking up a blues jr to go with this for gigs,the marshall and the musicman a bit big for some of the places were playing and we have a 2k P.A system and mike all the gear anyway...i have to collect the EL34'S and the 12ax7 phase inverter valve for the musicman this afternoon ..i'll let you know how it pans out.....
P.S..... as far as i know this is a early 60's model as the cabinet on the late 50's ones was a slightly different shape at the back...apart from a little hiss(probably could do with a cap job) it's working perfectly....i reckon this amp is about 45/46 years old..... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 12/14/2007 14:44:21 |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 21:57:06
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By-passing fuses and safety devices is a stupid idea all around, and usually ends badly.Whats the jumper for on top by the input jack? I think there's more mojo in that Selmer with its four missing knobs that there is in a ton of Blues jr.s. It looks pretty cool with the bare wood, but if you ever decide to recover it, the place where I bought my cab has all sorts of cabinet hardware and tolex coverings in many colours. Shipping wouldn't be to bad for that, but I guess it would cost too much to ship a cab to Ireland. Here's a link;
http://www.lopoline.com/vinyl.html
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Edited by - pedals 4 pv on 12/15/2007 09:18:47 |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2007 : 03:59:57
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What an awesome Selmer! How's she sound? I am getting more & more interested in vintage (new & old).
My son brought home a couple Lectrosonics Mouse battery-powered speakers c.1970s. One in good shape, one not so but I'm gonna try to resurrect it this weekend. Charge batts, replace speaker with new Radio Shack 8". Pretty neat, otherwise I'll hang until dumping onto Ebay. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2007 : 07:33:20
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Hi Franzoni
Nice Pics
Looks line the resistors on the output valves, really took a beating as well.
Wow, all 20% (silver banded) resistors, been a long time, since I was
components that old.
I had to look twice to read their values.
I see you're doing some renovations..
I love the polished floors.
Christo has nice polished floor boards as well.
Q. What is the big black blob-component, just to the left of center on the tag board?
Q. Who is that I spy hiding behind the wall in the shot with the rear of the Cab. showing the speaker?
Q. whee do you get those nice sneakers, in pic (3)?
Q. That small jumper cable, is that to strap the inputs together?
Q. How does it sound?
Regards Dr. Bob |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2007 : 07:36:37
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quote:
Originally posted by DeFrag
What an awesome Selmer! How's she sound? I am getting more & more interested in vintage (new & old).
My son brought home a couple Lectrosonics Mouse battery-powered speakers c.1970s. One in good shape, one not so but I'm gonna try to resurrect it this weekend. Charge batts, replace speaker with new Radio Shack 8". Pretty neat, otherwise I'll hang until dumping onto Ebay.
Hi DeFrag & Guys
Lectrosonics Mouse battery-powered speakers c.1970s
Can you post some pics?
I've never heard of these, some things never made down here to Oz..
Regards Dr. Bob |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2007 : 14:42:26
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Thanks for the nice comments about the amp..i'm sure the old girl is happy to be still working,i gigged it with the marshall last night and it sounds really sweet,the only problem is as the amp heats up it starts to distort too early for some of the stuff we have to cover...if we were doing a straight up blues gig all night i would use this and probably only the wah pedal.... i could probably try changing the speaker but to be honest i don't want to mess with it at all...shes had to put up with enough 'mods' in her life so far... .....
Dr Bob
A/..my experience is limited to running repairs through necessity doc..i'm not too sure about all the caps,resistors and stuff so i don't know what the black blob component is to be honest, i will change the resistors on the output valves with the help of the 'bro or my mate from the band...
A/...the person hiding behind the door is my assistant in all these pics the one and only mrs franzoni....
A/...the sneakers are from lidl (like aldi).....very comfy on the gigs......
A/....yep,the selmer has a bass and a treble input like an old marshall so you can jumper them and use them for a bit more 'bite' if you know what i mean...remember guys these amps were made at a time when the bass player and the singer might have to plug into this as well as the guitar player for gigs..... a whole 15 watts....the beatles were using these amps in the hamburg days because fender and gibson stuff was just too expensive back then...
A/....Rockin'..... i don't know if it has anything to do with the valve rectifer but the touch response of this amp is amazing,i can get a great early 50's blues or early rock n roll sound with the strat or tele and when i plug the strat with the clapton active mid boost installed...... i can see why eric likes old 50's fender twins with his guitar and doesn't need any pedals....
the floors i put down myself... still have a bit to do before the pudding.... in the other corner i got some units fitted this is the new room for my three girls..it also has a door leading into 14x12 en suite bathroom just out of picture...one of the benefits of being a plumber..i have three bathrooms in the house..but then i live in a house with four girls....
P.S.... pedals4pv...the musicman looks like it has some serious problems 'bro the new valves didn't fix the prob...i don't know if Dr Bob can help me out on this but i need this amp back working asap,a mate put me onto a guy who fixes stuff about 15 minutes drive away but i don't know if he has any experience of valve equipment.. |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 12/16/2007 10:12:20 |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 02:28:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Bob
Hi DeFrag & Guys
Lectrosonics Mouse battery-powered speakers c.1970s
Can you post some pics?
I've never heard of these, some things never made down here to Oz..
Regards Dr. Bob
The only pic available, I'll try to take my own soon.
http://www.lectrosonics.com/PressReleases/dearlectro/dearlectro.htm
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 03:29:22
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It sounds like nothing less than Amplified Misery Franzoni. I hope that you can find someone that can repair it. In Vancouver we have an old fellow that is quite renown for his amp repairs, named Mr. Ho. He invented the mass attenuator which was called Mr. Ho's attenuator before he sold the rights to Weber. The problem is that he didn't start his amp buisness until after he retired from a career as an electronics engineer and he is getting pretty old. You have to get on a list and he is open by appointment only. But it isn't like an ancient black art, any competent elecronics person should be able to repair a tube amp, I would think, if they have the schematic, the proper test equipment, and can get the parts.
On a happier note my Classic 30 is working out great for me so far, I received the tube guard that I ordered from Peavey and installed it a couple of days ago. As well as saving my little dogs nose from a burn, it has the added benefit of being a heat sink, the chassis of the amp runs noticeably cooler with it on, so it's well worth the $20 that it cost. This is what it looks like:
(not my pic, it's just one I found on a site but mines the same)
I ran the amp for a four hour period and the chassis above the four EL84 powertubes is only slightly warmer than the rest of the chassis. Without the tube guard it was teapot hot in that area, after a session. The tube guard is painted with a rough black texture, so I am assuming that it is a heat sink by design, and it's not just a coincedence. |
Edited by - pedals 4 pv on 12/16/2007 08:50:12 |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 10:11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by pedals 4 pv
It sounds like nothing less than Amplified Misery Franzoni. I hope that you can find someone that can repair it. In Vancouver we have an old fellow that is quite renown for his amp repairs, named Mr. Ho. He invented the mass attenuator which was called Mr. Ho's attenuator before he sold the rights to Weber. The problem is that he didn't start his amp buisness until after he retired from a career as an electronics engineer and he is getting pretty old. You have to get on a list and he is open by appointment only. But it isn't like an ancient black art, any competent elecronics person should be able to repair a tube amp, I would think, if they have the schematic, the proper test equipment, and can get the parts.
On a happier note my Classic 30 is working out great for me so far, I received the tube guard that I ordered from Peavey and installed it a couple of days ago. As well as saving my little dogs nose from a burn, it has the added benefit of being a heat sink, the chassis of the amp runs noticeably cooler with it on, so it's well worth the $20 that it cost. This is what it looks like:
(not my pic, it's just one I found on a site but mines the same)
I ran the amp for a four hour period and the chassis above the four EL84 powertubes is only slightly warmer than the rest of the chassis. Without the tube guard it was teapot hot in that area, after a session. The tube guard is painted with a rough black texture, so I am assuming that it is a heat sink by design, and it's not just a coincedence.
Great stuff pedals4pv...yes heat is a big problem with valve amps but it looks like you found a solution for yours...i'm gonna get the musicman up and running one way or another..i'll check the local repairer thats been recommended to me first,i also emailed a musicman amp forum to register but that site is a bit quiet compared to bossarea and i originally emailed the guy last october and am still waiting on an answer....!! if i could pick up a couple of your classic 30's for what you got yours for i would,but in the local buy and sell ad's any of the classic 30's or 50's they have are over 500 euro each.....secondhand...!!.. unbelieveable..i could buy them new for under 600 each...we have been lucky enough to have a reasonably sucessful economy for the last 15 years but one of the downsides is people have got a bit greedy..... to put it in perspective,i paid 100 old irish pounds(before the changeover to the euro)about 130 euro for the selmer and a little more for the marshall head,both in less than the last 10 years....i've seen marshall heads going for upwards of 800+ now....great amps but where are most people going to play with a 100 watt marshall above 2....i only get mine to 3 or 4 on gigs and thats with the converters attenuating the output..and i have been seriously thinking of downsizing in the last 12/18 months because it's still a bit loud........i think a reality check is in order... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 12/16/2007 10:12:59 |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 04:52:23
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| It's the same over here Franzoni, people want (and get) almost new price for used tube gear, or more. I saw old Bell & Howell movie projector guts, on sale today for $200. It seems like everyone wants a tube amp. I just got lucky, but I had to put in new tubes right away, so I think the guy thought it was going to cost a lot to repair, and decided just to get rid of it. We pay sales tax on new items, but not on used stuff (except vehicles) so the saving of the tax also inflates the price of used gear, especially the higher priced stuff. |
Edited by - pedals 4 pv on 12/18/2007 05:00:51 |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 15:10:37
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this is the musicman thats off the road at the moment.....Dr Bob has very kindly offered to help in fault finding this problem as best we can between us,but i have a horrible feeling that the output transformer has burned out....the symptoms that i read on some other forums regarding transformer failure sound very much like whats happening here........but you never know the great wizard of oz might be able to help a poor old valve amp come good.....BTW this is a 'script logo' musicman amp the 12ax7 inverter valve is inside the small silver coloured tube in the 2nd pic between the power and the output transformers,seemingly a design fault with the valve inverter in this position in these early amps caused a change over/refit to a fully solid state preamp section for any amp left in for a service and in all later models so the legend goes.. but i also heard that the old musicman company kept it fairly quiet..the problem is that if valve inverter fails it can cause the output valves to go supernova and a meltdown of the output tranny........and these amps are notorious for their high plate voltages,725 volts on the plates and can be hard on cheap or bogey valves,all in all not an amp to be poking around inside if you don't know what your at....but has a really great sound when working especially if you use pedals..this is my 'go to' amp because of it's a real all rounder.... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 12/18/2007 16:01:08 |
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Tube amp advice needed
