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diggum12
Silver Member
USA
282 Posts |
 Posted - 11/30/2006 : 06:45:10
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I've noticed the Boss pedals I have been buying at Guitar Center lately seem... different. I'm not trying to start a rumor, but do they possibly sell refurbished units?
I'm not crazy for thinking this, BTW. Does anyone remember Mars Music? They were a national Mega-Chain (Like Wal-Mart) store in the 90's like Guitar Center now is. (Guitar Center didn't used to be this way... )
Anyway, Mars used to do just that: Sell refurbished or b-stock items. I almost bought a Les Paul DC from them once, then I got to talking to the manager of the guitar dept. For whatever reason, he sensed I may not be happy to know the real origin of 90 percent of their guitars, and 100 percent of their amps. 
So yeah, basically they sold all the stuff that came into repair centers that big companies (Gibson, Fender, Crate, and even Mesa Boogie!) didn't want to list as new! Instead, you could go to Mars, buy it for 5 or 10 percent less than new (even though it was marketed "as new") and still have the full warranty, service, yada yada yada.
Anyone else have a reason to believe (or not) this? |
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jack
Platinum Member
USA
1418 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 09:55:09
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| It wouldn't surprise me. I mean with very heavy competition for the lowest prices, a profit still has to be made somehow for the seller. Also with everyone offering 90 day satisfaction guarantees, I am wondering how many returns are just flipped back into the new market as long as it has all the paperwork and shows no wear.... |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 12:10:25
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| If they do, they probably wouldn't change the serial number so enter it into the decoder and see if the pedal is older than what's normal. |
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guirat
Silver Member
United Kingdom
186 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 13:53:55
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Different? In that the box has obviously been opened?
I'd think if it was refurbished they would have to state that clearly on the packaging, as it would be second-hand (refurbished or "previously owned"). Refurbished and returned aren't the same thing.
With certain Computer chain stores (and possibly music stores as noted) returns seem to be a grey area, and can just be taped up and stuck back on a shelf. I'm sure this happens a lot, even with things like CD's. If they have a few in stock that you can examine see if there are differences in the packaging, some may still be sealed.
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jack
Platinum Member
USA
1418 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 16:51:32
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quote:
Originally posted by guirat
Different? In that the box has obviously been opened?
I'd think if it was refurbished they would have to state that clearly on the packaging, as it would be second-hand (refurbished or "previously owned"). Refurbished and returned aren't the same thing.
With certain Computer chain stores (and possibly music stores as noted) returns seem to be a grey area, and can just be taped up and stuck back on a shelf. I'm sure this happens a lot, even with things like CD's. If they have a few in stock that you can examine see if there are differences in the packaging, some may still be sealed.
I know theres a difference between refurbed and returned, but I think musical instrument returns are another grey area like you speak about with computers. I mean I would like to think they wouldn't do it, but what is there to prevent them to? Unless some type of mark is left on a pedal, can one really tell if the pedal has been played for a few days by someone or if its fresh out of the box? If you can, than more power to you.
As far as comparing packaging, if you are ordering through the net/mail, there is no way to do it. Then even if you are in a store, many music stores will just have an unboxed pedal out front as a demo, then if you decide you want it, they get you a boxed one from the back. I have rarely been to a music store where they have pedals on shelves stacked up like groceries.
Just my thoughts, but then again, I always love a good conspiracy theory... |
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diggum12
Silver Member
USA
282 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 18:10:45
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The computer theory has been proven. I'm a IT manager for a large hotel, and last year I bought "new" PCs from IBM (Lenovo)
OK now get this: They were remanufactured from new parts. WHAT? They were only like $700 for these brand new top of the line PCs. The product number and design were brand new. I was just totally confused, so I called my IBM rep.
ME: These are remanufactured?
IBM: Yes.
ME: So the parts have been used before?
IBM: No.
ME: So they're new.
IBM: No.
WHAT???? I was just as lost as you were. Apparently what happens is this: A big company (Boss, IBM) will manufacture 2 million parts or whatever of one OEM product, then sell them. They may buy them back, they may go on a shelf for 5 years, they may not pass Quality Control tests, whatever. For whatever reason, the parts are old, but never used. The OEM will then take batches of these parts and often make up an entirely new model (or in the case of my mystery pedals an identical one) and call it New/Remanufactured, emphasizing the "New."
HP is also notorious for this. They will release a totally new style of printer, using special cartriges, and 8 months later they will be gone with no change of ever getting a replacement for it.
Now I know we're talking about identical model pedals, not ever-changing computers and printers, but I know it does happen. Remember what I said about Mars. But like BossArea said, yes the companies would have to be in on it. I know Fender used to do it all the time, so I wouldn't put it past Roland (or at least Boss) to do the same. |
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Big Boss Man
Gold Member
USA
564 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 19:15:30
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| I went on a tour of the Martin guitar factory once. They do actually sell their b-stock guitars. They scrape the CF Martin name off the headstock though so it is not really sold as a Martin. I think just about any business sells their b-stock products. Some are more honest about it than others. |
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guirat
Silver Member
United Kingdom
186 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 19:48:40
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I always took refurbished to mean 'used', an example could be a bulk computer manufacturer leases 100 PC's to an Oil Company, who then upgrade to new PC's a year later. The old PC's are returned and then tested, cleaned professionally and sold as refurbished PCs (and advertised as such).
I'm wary nowadays of returning for replacement any new item on a trivial matter. I've read of people buying for instance a new flatscreen monitor. They find a tiny mark on the case or a dead pixel and return it as unsatisfactory. They then get sent a replacement which although missing the defects has quite obviously been used briefly and returned for some unknown reason. I think returned items are seen as suitable replacement items by some manufacturers. Sometimes it's best to stick with 'the devil you know'. Sorry I'm getting off topic 
I think the above comment is absolutely right that most companies sell on their returned and defective goods in some way or other, it would be financially difficult to survive without doing so. That's exactly why PC monitors have the '5 pixel rule' (or is it 8, I forget). |
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StratoSphere
Double Platinum Member
Canada
2232 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 00:00:23
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ya i wouldnt be surprised if this was happening, but to be honest, i havent been happy with a new pedal since like 1999. i find everything made after 99 sounds kinda crappy. with the exception of the MD-2 of course. almost like their missing the Boss original sound. like the PH-3 and BF-3 for instance kind of felt like Dano's in a Boss case. maybe im just looking too hard.  |
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ptero
Silver Member
Mexico
218 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 03:53:35
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I bought a MT-2 Metal Zone few months ago at Guitar Center in San Diego. Reading this thread I remembered that the MT-2 box has a triangular green sticker with a white R. What does it means, was it refurbished, remanufactured? So am I not the fisrt and only one to stomp on it?
Now I feel a kind of dissapointed. |
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StratoSphere
Double Platinum Member
Canada
2232 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 04:23:29
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i think there used to be a thread about this. apparantly the green triangle with an "R" just means that they are now using lead free solder or something like that. i bought a TU-2 new a few months ago and it had this. so if you get a green triangle Boss i think the only difference is that they are more "environmentally friendly" |
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diggum12
Silver Member
USA
282 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 19:13:48
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StratoSphere is correct. The green "R" triangle means RoHS which is Restriction of Hazardous Substances. In other words, no lead in the solder. So it's not symbolic of refurbished/remanufactured.  |
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ptero
Silver Member
Mexico
218 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 07:56:32
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| Thanks, I have got information about it here and in other web pages. |
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diggum12
Silver Member
USA
282 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2007 : 20:19:58
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Sorry for digging this up again, but I'm convinced something is going on here.
First, the original pedal that started this thread: That diode on r35 (see this thread: http://www.bossarea.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2217 ) was indeed NOT supposed to be there. It screwed up the Attack pot so that the pedal basically didn't work if it was below 50 percent. I removed the diode and all is well!
So I know what you may be thinking, "that pedal was probably returned and some kid was messing around with amatuer mods..." but that's not the case. The CS-3 case was a) taped shut and b) 10 dollars cheaper than the other CS-3s, but they insisted it was new, never used etc. They say they get pedals shipped in like that every few weeks, but they've never payed any mind to it.
I'm telling you something funny is going on here.
To add fuel to this fire, have you seen these "repack" pedals on Ebay? Just do a search on "Boss repack." Now these guys selling them seem like just a clearing house for all kinds of B-stock or discontinued products. I don't see "new" or "used" in the Ebay descriptions anywhere.
Still, I think Roland/Boss is introducing less-than-perfect products into the market. |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2007 : 23:24:15
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| I sent an e-mail to Roland support asking if this is something they do. Not sure if the web page (http://support.rolandus.com/mojo/support_request.php) worked properly though. When I press submit it just displays the form again so I'm not sure if it was successfully sent or not. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2007 : 23:40:59
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Hi Diggum12 and Guys
Quote from Diggum12
Still, I think Roland/Boss is introducing less-than-perfect products into the market.
Maybe that's why we are seeing, some weird faults on this forum.
Like NowhereMan's fading audio problem on his new RC-2
Hmmmmmmmmm........
Regards Dr. Bob |
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Not trying to start a rumor, but...
