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Shoegazers Anonymous
Silver Member
Sweden
257 Posts |
 Posted - 12/30/2007 : 18:30:02
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| Hello again. Sorry for not stop writing about tonesucking. I really don�t notice any tonesuck, but it�s a annoying feeling "if" there is and im too dumb to hear it, so I just ask you instead. I have a TW-1 wich I like i guess. But the other day I bought myself a new wah, a crybaby classic with fasel and true bypass. In the shop I was told that wahs always sucks tone and true bypass really is to ask for at just wahs. So, that started my brain to nearly explode when Im thinking about the Touch Wah. Is that a tonesucker too? I have never really seen any Boss pedal as a tonesucker, only heard people talk about it. But even if its a boss, its a wah. So what do you people think? |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2007 : 18:54:22
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| I don't see any reason why a wah should suck any more tone than any other pedal. When the pedal is turned off the effect isn't activated and the tone suck is determined by the components that bypasses the effect. In Boss pedals that's usually a couple of JFETs and in a true bypass pedal it's a switch. It wouldn't matter what effect the pedal is in this case. |
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Shoegazers Anonymous
Silver Member
Sweden
257 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2007 : 19:16:46
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Thanks! Now I can use it and only be glad about the effect instead of worry about nonsens about tonesuck etc.  |
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alex_law
Silver Member
168 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2007 : 19:22:40
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There are lots of differently marketed variants of "true bypass", and the same is true for buffered pedals.
At the end of the day, you have to simply use your ears - internet hype is nonsense, and "true bypass" isn't always the best option. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2007 : 00:44:11
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Hi Guys
Low input impedance is one of the biggest culprits, when it come to tone suck.
It places a heavy load on your high impedance guitar p/up signal, & rolls off the top end frequencies.
Impedances of 470K are good & 1Meg or more is even better.
If you notice, a lot of/most Boss & modern pedals have 1Meg input impedances.
As a novice - I could never figure out, why I had such poor treble response from my guitars, and blamed the pickups, or amp.
A lot of my old gear has very low input impedances of around 100k,
I have built simple FET buffers (High to Low impedance converters).
One of my old amps has an input impedance of 47K, & the input is marked "GUITAR" Go Figure.. No wonder I was fighting a loosing battle.
I know that some of the very old Boss pedals, have low input impedances as well.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Regards Dr. Bob |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2007 : 03:23:01
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quote:
Originally posted by alex_law
There are lots of differently marketed variants of "true bypass", and the same is true for buffered pedals.
At the end of the day, you have to simply use your ears - internet hype is nonsense, and "true bypass" isn't always the best option.
All said, I don't think one will find much suck in a couple pedals but if you stack about 10 or more it'll definately degrade your signal. Bypass loops help of course but the bottom-line: the LESS buffers you have in the chain the better. Thus, I'd rather have TB than not-TB. Its a great debate, but electrons are electrons & TB holds the advantage everytime to maintain as little frequency loss, strength of signal, & strong S/N ratio. |
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alex_law
Silver Member
168 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2007 : 05:02:57
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| Just to be difficult, I'll add this: some signal loss isn't always a bad thing! A little high-end rolloff - for example, Jimi's curly cords possibly smoothing out single coils into a bright plexi Marshall - can be beneficial, depending on what tone you're going for. |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2007 : 05:11:09
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quote:
Originally posted by alex_law
Just to be difficult, I'll add this: some signal loss isn't always a bad thing! A little high-end rolloff - for example, Jimi's curly cords possibly smoothing out single coils into a bright plexi Marshall - can be beneficial, depending on what tone you're going for.
No, no.. I wasn't listening. You definately have a good point there. I just didn't catch it at first. |
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StratoSphere
Double Platinum Member
Canada
2232 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2007 : 09:10:49
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haha welcome to the world of "guitar brainwashing." rumors spread faster than wildfire. we can start with the vast topic of tonsuckage, move on to single coil vs buckers, or set neck vs bolt on, or MIJ vs MIT. etc etc etc
all i have to say is that too many people listen with their eyes. in music and guitar playing especially, PREFERENCE is what matters most and there is no right or wrong. in my opinion, tone suckage is just another guitar issue thats blown way out of proportion.
Defrag said "At the end of the day, you have to simply use your ears - internet hype is nonsense, and "true bypass" isn't always the best option." 
AMEN! |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2007 : 09:25:16
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quote:
Originally posted by alex_law
Just to be difficult, I'll add this: some signal loss isn't always a bad thing! A little high-end rolloff - for example, Jimi's curly cords possibly smoothing out single coils into a bright plexi Marshall - can be beneficial, depending on what tone you're going for.
I agree alex_law. The terms "Tonesuck" and "signal amplitude loss" are being confused IMHO. Ordinary signal amplitude loss through cables and pedals is a function of Ohm's law. This is why an equalizer must be used in a long pedal chain, I by-pass my pedal chain with a PSM-5, and when I set my EQ, I set it with the signal travelling through the entire pedal chain with none of the pedals active, except the EQ. I set the over all volume control of the EQ so when the PSM-5 is operated there is no noticable volume or tone change. I have had a cable with a cold solder joint, this produced a deadening of the signal that could not be changed by the EQ, which could well be described a tonesuck. I have also have had an old pedal (Nobel's Tremelo) that deadened the signal, whether activated or not, like a bad cable. This too could be described as tonesuck. But if normal signal amplitude loss is tonesuck, then does my volume pedal create tone suck? My mixer? I think tonesuck needs a more precise definition. I tried to find one, but after disqualifing anyone that is selling a cure for tonesuck, such as true by-pass mods., etc., I could not find one |
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visserman
Platinum Member
1072 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2008 : 17:28:23
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Great stuff people!! So much fun eh this little thing here!!
Both Bob and Alex Law mentioned good points.
I will go saying as far as: Anything you plug your guitar into will suck tone, Try different cables and most of them will give you a difference in treble response. Not all people will hear this, I do!!. Is this good? No, it is a curse, and one needs to live with it really.
About pedals: The more pedals you will use, the more tonesuck. Just try plugging straight into your amp, play one chord, let it ring. Then try same again, now using all pedals you want, and tell me if you hear a difference. But as Ales Law mentioned earlier, not all tonesuck is bad, and really it is a fact of life, just as that strings will die, intonation will go off, saddles will wear out ect. ect.
And yes, this whole issue is used for commercial purposes to get people to buy things which will solve it, but really...........
One needs to use common sense, look at impediancematches and other issues, too much to mention here, and also not everyone will be interested.
About the TW1, yes when that one is on it does take away some treble, like any oldschool whah, but hey! You enhance the treblesetting on the pedal and you will not really notice what it took away from you in the first place.
HAPPY playing, and happy exploring in the world of sound and music. |
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Touch Wah - tonesuck?
