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copper
Bronze Member
USA
73 Posts |
 Posted - 11/03/2008 : 21:52:49
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Hi, I'm new here, and I got a question.
I have a CE-3 that I got for $35, and for the price, I think it was worth it, but I prefer the sounds of a CE-2 more. I've heard that the CE-2 and CE-3 have almost the same circuit, so I was wondering what I would have to do to make my CE-3 more like a CE-2. I have good soldering skills, that that kind of stuff is not an issue.
Thanks a bunch! |
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ChristoMephisto
Platinum Member
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2008 : 22:22:10
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Hi there and welcome to the Forum
Good question, don't think it's been asked before.
Other than the opamps, which has some impact on the sound,
The 3007 is suppose to have better mojo than the 3207, and not sure about the BBD chip. You can get close to it, looking at the schems, the only other difference is one cap, change C12 (0.068) to CE-2 specs of 0.033, and play it mono.
FYI, the CE-2B has a 0.012 at the same location
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nathanscribe
Silver Member
United Kingdom
376 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2008 : 23:10:10
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I think there was a recent discussion about the 3007 and 3207. They use different power rails, so a straight swap is not possible. Also, the CE-3 circuit is a bit more involved than the CE-2.
I have both, and can say the CE-2 has a warmer bottom end, and (at least on mine) a smoother, rounder sweep. If you look at the circuits, (CE-2 CE-3), you'll see the sweep oscillator at the mid left. Perhaps removing C29 would smooth the sweep, I haven't tried it - but it's one difference, as would be shorting R51.
As for the other aspects of the sound, the input resistor/cap arrangement is different. C21 (ce-3) is different to C14 (ce-2), and there's different switching of dry/wet signals going on.
All in all, I would say that the difference in sound comes from both the difference in BBDs as much as the sum of the variations in design. Which IMO makes it more trouble than it'd be worth to change it. Easier to buy a CE-2, I think. Or, perhaps, a CE-2b, which has only the one capacitor different, as well as the effect level control, as stated above. Swap out that component, and I bet it would sound as much like a CE-2 as anything other than a CE-2 is likely to get. Apart from the cap difference, with the level set to full, the CE-2b is the same as a CE-2.
Just for the record, I've ABCD'ed my MIJ CE-3 with a MIJ CE-2, MIT CE-2, and MIT CE-2b. I found the CE-2's (using an analogue oscillator to produce a range of frequencies) to be so alike I couldn't tell the difference except in a slight variation in the sweep rates (probably component tolerances); the CE-3 had a slightly more angular sweep, lighter bottom end, and sounds a touch rougher, though not unpleasant; the CE-2b sounded very like the CE-2 but, oddly perhaps for a bass pedal, had a less attractive bottom end. I preferred the CE-2 (using a bass to test). I suspect the different capacitor in the CE-2b is there to roll off the bottom end of the chorused sound before it's mixed with the dry sound to clean it up a bit. |
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copper
Bronze Member
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2008 : 00:19:05
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| Thanks guys. Because I don't have a .033 (pF or uF?) on hand (or else I would do that), I just want to make sure that it is safe to remove C29 and R51. Once this is varified, I will do the mod and share the results. |
Edited by - copper on 11/04/2008 00:28:49 |
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nathanscribe
Silver Member
United Kingdom
376 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2008 : 00:54:59
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quote:
Originally posted by copper
I just want to make sure that it is safe to remove C29 and R51.
Removing C29 might be, but removing R51 won't. In the CE-2, there's a direct link from the IC to ground there - so if you want to try this, you should replace R51 with a wire link.
I'm not recommending anything I said above - I'm only speculating that it would soften the sweep of the LFO, but I have not checked the waveform on either the CE-2 or 3 with a scope, so I can't say if the angularity I perceive in my 3 is general, or particular to my unit, and don't know if the waveform is any different - my ears might be deceiving me, or it could be some other factor. Up to you. At least it's a reversible experiment.
BTW: 0.033 would be in uF, or 33nF. |
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ChristoMephisto
Platinum Member
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2008 : 03:11:46
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Thanx for pointing out those other differences, totally missed them.
C29 looks like a lowpass filter of about 338Hz, which could explain the bass.
Sorry, should be 0.033uf. Try one mod before the other
good luck
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ssanyee
Silver Member
Hungary
288 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2008 : 19:20:53
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Hi copper,
Welcome to the forum!
I have both of schem, so if you want them please PM to me and am going to send them you!
Good luck to this mod!
cheers |
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copper
Bronze Member
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 21:57:24
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| I just remembered one more thing. The CE-3 requieres a 12 volt adaptor (the older ACA adaptors). But it has the resistor and diode to lower it down to 9 volts. Would all I have to do is remove and jumper the resistor and diode so it would work correctly with a 9v adaptor? |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 22:45:25
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quote:
Originally posted by copper
I just remembered one more thing. The CE-3 requieres a 12 volt adaptor (the older ACA adaptors). But it has the resistor and diode to lower it down to 9 volts. Would all I have to do is remove and jumper the resistor and diode so it would work correctly with a 9v adaptor?
Yes. Remove and jumper. Good info also at http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/articles/bossadapt.htm |
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copper
Bronze Member
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2009 : 22:00:58
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Thanks for all the help. I (finally) had some time to do the mods and here's what I did in order:
1. Made it compatible with 9v adaptor
2. Swapped .068 cap with .033 (actually a .01 and .022 in parallel). Sounded good, smoother and warmer.
3. Pulled C29 and jumpered R51. Further smoothed the tone.
And here's the problem:
4. I was going to make the input cap/resistors the CE-2 way and there was a major volume loss. Then I swapped everything back and it didn't work at all. LED didn't even light up.
Any help would be appreciated and to where I might have to look.
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copper
Bronze Member
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2009 : 22:29:39
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| Ok I found that one of the wires connected to the power jack had came off. I reattached it and now I'm back to the very little signal. May something have burnt out? |
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copper
Bronze Member
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2009 : 22:41:53
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Okay, this is the last time I'm going to annoy you guys in this thread. I did some touch up soldering on some of the mediocre looking solder joints, and now it works. I don't know what did it but it works again. Which leads to my next question....
How would the tone change by adjusting the input cap/resistors? Brighter? Darker? Nothing?
Thanks again for all the conversion help. |
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copper
Bronze Member
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 02:13:16
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Wow. I never learn when to just stop!!!
I swapped out the 1uf electrolytes for metal film because I read in various places it lowered noise. Then the chorus effect is drastically reduced almost to where you can't hear any chorus. I swapped the electrolytes back in and there is still a problem. Anywhere to check for problems? |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 03:11:17
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quote:
Originally posted by copper
Wow. I never learn when to just stop!!!
I swapped out the 1uf electrolytes for metal film because I read in various places it lowered noise. Then the chorus effect is drastically reduced almost to where you can't hear any chorus. I swapped the electrolytes back in and there is still a problem. Anywhere to check for problems?
Hi copper
Check the polarity of the electro's.
quote:
I did some touch up soldering on some of the mediocre looking solder joints, and now it works. I don't know what did it but it works again.
And re-check your soldering.
Get a good magnifying glass, or a 3x (3 times magnification) Loupe.
Good lighting, or daylight is essential for checking PCB's.
A good quaility small tipped Temp. controlled soldering iron.
And very importantly, good quaility 60/40 or 63/37 rosin cored solder.
A Loupe - eye piece.
For scale reference, the widest bottom part is 40mm dia.
Regards Dr. Bob  |
Edited by - Dr. Bob on 01/02/2009 03:13:00 |
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copper
Bronze Member
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2009 : 01:35:17
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I didn't have a cap sunk unto the PCB enough. All is well. And then I opened it up to put the metal caps back in  .....
Hahaha, nothing went wrong though  . There's a little less noise and it's a little clearer.
I'm very satisfied with these mods. It's a little warmer, more presence, not so rough, less noisy, smoother, and clearer. Not very drastic, but noticeable. I'd really like to compare it to a stock on now and really hear all the differences.
Thanks again guys for all the help. |
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ChristoMephisto
Platinum Member
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2009 : 22:47:04
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What does it sound like in stereo?
You can also 'trick' the pedal to do vibrato also.
Put it on Mode II and put an empty jack in B and the regular A is output |
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Topic |
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CE-3 to CE-2
