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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
 Posted - 06/06/2008 : 01:31:13
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Just wondering if anyone else notices this with their DM-2...? It's maybe a 2dB volume loss when you turn the effect on (subtle, but real). OK in bypass. No tone loss - just volume.
I'm going to fiddle with the gain of the output buffer op-amp to bring it back up (drop R37 to maybe 42k or 39k). |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 02:51:06
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that happens with DM-2's and DM-3's.
2db is about right, give or take half a db :) |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 09:51:22
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quote:
Originally posted by zentropa
that happens with DM-2's and DM-3's.
2db is about right, give or take half a db :)
Holy  zentropa, you have better ears than my CRO.  
Regards Dr. Bob
2882 |
Edited by - Dr. Bob on 06/06/2008 09:51:52 |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 12:51:44
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| I remember something about a 3dB change is the smallest measure that the average human ear is able to notice. Not sure where I picked that up so maybe I'm fantasizing. |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 16:43:29
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CRO?
heh.
i've always been able to tell subtle differences in things.
when i worked in the recording studio i used to hate using those old industry standard yamaha monitors (like ns120's or something?) because they had a 2db hump around 2.1Khz and my ear never "adjusts" like most people's do. they'd ask me to double check final mixes to make sure they hadn't mixed down that freq range because of the speakers.
the DM-2 and DM-3 both have a high frequency "cap." the DM-2 shaves down your high end down to around 7-7.5Khz. the DM-3's noise reduction circuit brings it down even more, closer to the 5.8-6Khz. both have a similar low freq cap around 600-800hz and anything below that is cutout.
one thing to note, the db loss of both pedals is NOT uniform across all freq's. there's a bit of mid scooping that goes on. feels like there's a slight hump in the very low midrange, but scooped through the middle and upper mids.
both also seem to have a touch of compression on the attack with the DM-3 having slightly more. this is subtle, about on par with the J201 bleed fix vs. stock on an SD-1.
i think what bugs me most about both pedals (although i like them more than any digital delay) are that you can hear/feel the current flow in the free space around them (i'm not talking about 60-cycle hum). the DC-3, PQ-4, and some of the harmonizer/pitch shifters are the only other pedals i've noticed this with. something with the electrical field generated by the device... if you own a high gain marshall it's similar to when you kick it on in a silent room you get that initial power up hum of the current going to the tubes and then it sort of levels off but there is some form of disturbance in the free space around the amp... i'm crazy, but i know it's there.
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 17:33:17
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quote:
Originally posted by zentropa
CRO?
CRO = Cathode Ray Oscilloscope
(CRO is an Aussie term - more often known as a "scope" here)
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 17:35:48
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quote:
Originally posted by zentropa
i used to hate using those old industry standard yamaha monitors (like ns120's or something?) because they had a 2db hump around 2.1Khz and my ear never "adjusts" like most people's do. they'd ask me to double check final mixes to make sure they hadn't mixed down that freq range because of the speakers.
They were "NS-10"s - and I never understood why anyone used them. They were awful! |
Edited by - Laurie on 06/06/2008 17:36:02 |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2008 : 04:34:37
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no fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it.
just kidding.
i dunno, i get a definite timbre shift in my guitar signal. generally aren't major timbre shifts (e.g. a shift from "bright" to "dull") the result of frequencies being changed?
my physics expertise is mostly in vector addition and stuff like that :p
i actually don't know how sound waves work really in regards to this stuff.
i do know when things change, even if it's very subtle... and can usually pick where along the frequency spectrum things drop out or boost...
it's weird... i was tested (for craziness) and found that i have highly acute senses. i have weird things happen. like, i can sing while playing guitar/bass but i can't just sing as i feel the vibrations of the instrument body against my own body and am able to reach a point of "harmony" with the vibrations of the instrument and my own body.
dunno any other way to describe it other than DM-2's and DM-3's do change your guitar tone and do so in a few diff frequency ranges. |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2008 : 17:27:25
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| Well... It turned out to be my board. The true-bypass loop that I had the pedal connected to has a fault. DM-2 is fine. |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 08:27:58
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heh.
wtf. makes me think there's something wrong with my DM-3.
there's a definite color/timbre change that seems to scrape out a few frequencies. might have some dead caps.
had the exact same experience with my friend's dm-2. |
Edited by - zentropa on 06/16/2008 08:28:15 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 14:16:30
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quote:
Originally posted by zentropa
heh.
wtf. makes me think there's something wrong with my DM-3.
there's a definite color/timbre change that seems to scrape out a few frequencies. might have some dead caps.
had the exact same experience with my friend's dm-2.
It's entirely likely that you can hear some differences with your DM-3. The VERY audible differences I could hear in my rig were due to a dead loop though...
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borroway
Copper Member
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 19:07:55
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| I have a DM-2, DM-3, AD-9 and do notice the DM-2 & AD-9 have a slight drop in volume which is not good if you are a harp player as you need to be able to cut through the mix. Both pedals seem to dampen / mask the tone slightly. This may not be as noticable to a guitar player but certainly there is a slight drop when plugged into an amp for harp. I now use a DD-2/DD-3 and do not have any issues but love the warm tone of the analog delays. Have not had much time to play around with the DM-3 but from the previous posts looks like that pedal would be similiar. Is there anything that can be done to improve these pedals. Does anyone out there know of a good Analog pedal that would maintain the volume level once activated. ? |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 01:22:26
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If I have the maths right for the DM-2, changing R37 and R32 to 42k should improve things. I'm going to try it myself one rainy day - will post the result (eventually!)
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Edited by - Laurie on 06/23/2008 01:23:32 |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 03:43:24
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borrow:
the only analog delays i know of that are easily obtainable are the maxon AD9 which is true bypass and has much better components than the ibanez and the new mxr carbon copy pedal.
sorry i can't be of more help than that but you've given me confidence that i'm not crazy and i do hear a lot of volume loss :) |
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borroway
Copper Member
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 10:14:09
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Zentropa;
I have tried the new Maxon AD-9 true Bypass last year through my harp rig but it had a huge drop in volume once activated.Very Very noticeable. The search goes on ....... |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 15:31:52
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quote:
Originally posted by borroway
Zentropa;
I have tried the new Maxon AD-9 true Bypass last year through my harp rig but it had a huge drop in volume once activated.Very Very noticeable. The search goes on .......
If volume loss is the issue... Boss don't make one, but Behringer (gasp!) have a thing called the PB100 preamp/booster. I have one that I use occasionally if i have too much signal loss for whatever reason.
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DM-2 volume loss?
