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pedelar
Copper Member
46 Posts |
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phostenix
Gold Member
USA
754 Posts |
 Posted - 11/24/2005 : 05:06:37
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Here are 2 pictures of a CE-2 Black MIJ Silver Screw Stamped 0200:
http://members.cox.net/phostenix/Images/CE-2-0200-PCBTop-800.jpg
http://members.cox.net/phostenix/Images/CE-2-0200-PCBBottom-800.jpg
This is an unmodified old school CE-2. It's the first one I bought off ebay a couple of years ago. It has sentimental value now  Let me get a Kleenex....
Here are 2 pix of a Black MIJ Silver Screw S/N 056700:
http://members.cox.net/phostenix/Images/CE-2-056700-PCBTop-800.jpg
http://members.cox.net/phostenix/Images/CE-2-056700-PCBBottom-800.jpg
(Note the non-factory Depth Pot with its now too short brown interconnect wire.) This beater is a recent purchase on ebay. Came to me with a broken knob on top of all the rest, but I got it for a great price!
Here are 2 pix of a Green MIT S/N AA58556:
http://members.cox.net/phostenix/Images/CE-2-AA58556-PCBTop-800.jpg
http://members.cox.net/phostenix/Images/CE-2-AA58556-PCBBottom-800.jpg
This one's a whole 'nother story. I bought this as a non-working pedal from Devils FX on ebay. The pedal pictured in the listing was a Long Dash Siver Screw, but I got this MIT instead.  Several of the mylar caps have been replaced and you will notice the addition of the Burr-Brown Op-Amp w/socket. Ooh, there's the elusive TL022 Op-Amp that's usually covered. It was non-working due to a solder bridge in the LFO section. Can you find the lifted traces that came as a bonus? Repeat after me, "More heat, less time. More heat, less time..." Every solder joint that had been made by the moddifier was cold, they all had to be re-done. Experience is everything when it comes to soldering.
Now that my walk down memory lane is over, here's what's important to you. In the older Boss pedals, they just tacked all the interconnect wires to the PCB without feeding them through. The holes are all drilled, but they didn't use them. The CE-1 is like this too. I can only guess that it sped up production when they were hand soldering these wires. The newer MIT pedals feed the wires through the PCB like they should. Ah ha! The MIT pedals are better than the MIJ! Just kidding, simmer down. Your pedal looks to have the wires fed through.
The mylar caps on your board look most like the caps on my MIT - at least the ones that weren't replaced. My 056700 CE-2 has similar caps, but the covers are translucent green, not clear. I have 2 other Black MIJ - S/N's 204000 & 205700 that have the same translucent green caps. The old 0200 is very different, as you can see. I also have another CE-2 with no bottom label that is a MIT (and a very late one at that)- S/N BA81736, and it has burgundy colored mylar caps.
The other thing to look at is the pots. The older pots had round shafts and knobs with set screws. The newer MIT ones have splined shafts on the pots and all plastic knobs with no set screw. Set screws slow down assembly, and all plastic knobs are cheaper.
The PCB on the older pedals is slightly lighter in color, but that's hard to judge unless you have them side-by-side.
Eventually, I'll post all my pix, but I've got to get some other stuff sold off before I move on to that project.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Grace and peace,
Steve
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 00:14:48
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Great CE-2 research you've done there.
Interesting to see that all PCBs are marked 052-516B. It sounds like the layout went unchanged from the earliest Japan models to the later Taiwan models. Some of the components has obviously changed. The 4558C has been replaced with a 4558D and we can easily see how the green capacitors gradually disappeared.
I had to open up my own to compare. It's a Made In Japan with serial 164900. It looks almost identical to your 056700. The only difference I can see is that the PCB is marked with a big I instead of a J and that the diode next to the wires marked 9 and 11 (I think it's D7, the 9V zener) has been replaced with the type used in your Taiwan pedal. |
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phostenix
Gold Member
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 05:23:00
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It's also interesting to note that those 4558's are NEC, not JRC. But then, these aren't Tubescreamers, are they? 
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lightburst
Silver Member
Germany
158 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 09:51:00
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Like in other pedals you can find various brands of the 4558 in the CE-2. But I only know about the NEC and the JRC. My CE-2 (my very first pedal!) from 1979/1980 has the JRC op. Here is a picture of it:
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Edited by - lightburst on 12/18/2005 13:14:05 |
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Jill Valentine
Bronze Member
USA
116 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 09:57:55
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SEXY!
xoxox |
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Sunburst
Silver Member
427 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 09:59:01
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All this talk has left me with a strong desire to add a good old CE-2 to my collection.
And besides...I love its baby blue colour...  |
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phostenix
Gold Member
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 17:37:20
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Lightburst,
I see that yours has the old "Chicklet" green mylar caps, too. But I also see something more interesting (at least to me). I had noticed when I posted my pix the other day that there is a diode symbol silk screened on the PCB that has been replaced with a wire on all my CE-2's. (Down in the lower right-hand corner of the piture. It shows up well in the first pic of the 0200 CE-2.) That was diode D3 on Boss' schematic (in the switching circuitry, raising the emitters' ground voltage). It looks to me like D3 is in place on your pedal. C26 & C27 have their values changed on every CE-2 schematic I've seen from some original value that I can't quite make out to 220pF now. You can see from my picture of 0200 that those changes are already in place. C26 & C27 are the 2 ceramic caps on the outside edge of the board in the corner right next to the printing that says, "CE-2." Another change that is not doucmented on the schematic is that R42 was changed from a 1K to a 100 ohm resistor. Again, in my pic of 0200, it's the resistor directly to the left of C26 & C27.
So, that leads me to ask these questions:
What is the serial/batch number of your pedal? I'm assuming it has to pre-date the 0200.
Is D3 in place on your pedal?
Have C26 & C27 changed to 220pF caps (marked 221K)? If not, what is the value of those caps?
Has R42 changed from 1K to 100 ohms?
Do you ever have switching problems with this pedal, like with a battery that is starting to fade? I assume that is the reason for these changes....
Thanks for the pic!
Grace and peace,
Steve
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lightburst
Silver Member
Germany
158 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 18:28:05
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Phostenix,
ok let me answer your questions 
quote:
What is the serial/batch number of your pedal?
The serial/batch number of my CE-2 is 9000 stamped in the battery compartment (so it�s an old one with the silver screw)
quote:
Is D3 in place on your pedal?
Yes, D3 is in place. But I�ve made a similiar experience with my OD-1 (from 1981 ) where there is a wire where D3 should be. In another OD-1 by a friend of mine, D3 is in place. He has a real early one with the 14-pin op-amp from 1978! You can see both pcb side by side here:
You can find D3 in the lower right corner of the right pcb.
quote:
Have C26 & C27 changed to 220pF caps (marked 221K)? If not, what is the value of those caps? Has R42 changed from 1K to 100 ohms?
No, both caps have the right value according to the schematics I have in my archive of 470pF (471K) and R42 is 1K!
quote:
Do you ever have switching problems with this pedal?
I never had any problems with my CE-2 but I know the phenomenon of difficulties with the switching when the battery gets weak of with CE-2s.
I hope that helps and my English is good enough to make things clearer
Please let me add that even sometimes it�s difficult for me to describe things in English I enjoy sharing knowlege with all of you here in the forum very much |
Edited by - lightburst on 12/18/2005 13:14:32 |
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phostenix
Gold Member
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 19:07:25
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Looking at the Service Manuals for the DS-1, NF-1, and TW-1, they document these changes as the "momentary LED" changes to keep the LED on when the effect is on.
Is your CE-2 a momentary LED?
So, the transistor that is directly to the left of R42 is Q8, the switching transistor for the LED. Directly to the left of that on the board is R51. R51 post-change is a 3.9K resistor. What is that value on your PCB? I think it should be a 1K. The other change should be C23, which is the mylar cap right next to Q8. In my pic, they are touching. Post-change, this is a .01uF (marked 103K). What is that cap on yours? The SM says that it should have been a 1/50 or .47/50. The NF-1 schematic shows that as an electrolytic, but yours is clearly a mylar.
The only momentary LED pedal I have is a CS-1 (8400). It has a 1uF electrolytic in that place.
Does your PCB have the same marking on the edge - "CE-2 052-516B"?
That all for now! 
Grace and peace,
Steve
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phostenix
Gold Member
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 19:16:11
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You got your reply in before I finished my many questions!
As to your English, it's very clear to me. At least you can speak more than 1 language! I'm working on Spanish, being in Arizona, and I find it much easier than it must be to learn English. Spanish is very consistent. I took 2 years of German back in 7th and 8th grade (back when your friend's pedal was made ), but I haven't been able to retain it since I never use it.
Now, learning all the different English terms the guys from the UK use, that's a whole 'nother thing!
What's a "pedal anorak", anyway?
Grace and peace,
Steve
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phostenix
Gold Member
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 19:27:11
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| Lightburst, what are the serial/batch numbers on those OD-1's. I only have a service manual for the original OD-1 with the RC3403A 14-pin Op-Amp. Your friend's looks to match up with my schematic. Is his a momentary LED and yours a solid LED? |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 20:27:28
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I'd be interested to know that too. How do they match up to the information on the OD-1 page (http://www.bossarea.com/loadpage.asp?file=boxes/od1.xml)?
The second version schematic (ET-23D) indicates that all ET-23B PCBs had momentary LEDs. That probably means all serial numbers from 6400-8800. I'm still not sure if there ever was an ET-23C or not.
Oh and I guess a pedal anorak must be equivalent to a pedalphile |
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lightburst
Silver Member
Germany
158 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2005 : 11:06:05
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Huh, many questions to answer. 
Ok here we go:
phostenix:
quote:
Is your CE-2 a momentary LED?
No, my CE-2 has the normal LED switching wich stays on when the effect is on. And since it�s one of the first year the CE-2 was made I think there is no momentary LED CE-2 out there but how knows?
quote:
So, the transistor that is directly to the left of R42 is Q8, the switching transistor for the LED. Directly to the left of that on the board is R51. R51 post-change is a 3.9K resistor. What is that value on your PCB? I think it should be a 1K. The other change should be C23, which is the mylar cap right next to Q8. In my pic, they are touching. Post-change, this is a .01uF (marked 103K). What is that cap on yours?
R51 is a 3.9K on my pcb and C23 is a .01�F.
quote:
Does your PCB have the same marking on the edge - "CE-2 052-516B"?
Yes.
quote:
What's a "pedal anorak", anyway?
I don�t know either although the UK is closer to Germany than to the US
quote:
Lightburst, what are the serial/batch numbers on those OD-1's. I only have a service manual for the original OD-1 with the RC3403A 14-pin Op-Amp. Your friend's looks to match up with my schematic. Is his a momentary LED and yours a solid LED?
My OD-1 has the sticker inside the battery compartment and says 080300. I don�t remember the s/n of the older OD-1 and took no picture of it. I think I remember a number of 8600 but I will ask him to look for that and then I let you know.
Phostenix, is it possible to send me a copy of your service manual of the older OD-1? I only have the service manual of the later OD-1 with the 8-pin op and it�s excactly the schematic of my OD-1 before my mods.
I can here you screaming "What the hell...he modded his OD-1"
Yes I did because I found out that the older OD-1 sounded a little better to my ears and so I compared both circuits and made the changes to get that "older sound - with great success by the way. I put in a socket for the op but don�t switched to a 14-pin op because this would have been to labour intensive. The picture was taken before the mods took place for having a document in case of rebuilding.
Oh, and yes mine has the solid LED and the OD-1 of my friend has the momentary LED.
bossarea:
quote:
How do they match up to the information on the OD-1 page?
When I had this particullar OD-1 on my desk I figuered out it must be a OD-1B. Mine is a OD-1D a transistion version since it has the s/n sticker |
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phostenix
Gold Member
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2005 : 19:07:28
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Lightburst,
Your mods don't bother me.
As far as I'm concerned, if you have no intention of re-selling a pedal, go ahead and modify it so you like it. You're the one who is using it, after all! If it were up to me, I'd re-solder all my old MIJ pedals so that the wires go through the circuit boards like they are supposed to! But, of course, that would ruin their re-sale value, so I won't....
I'll have to scan that OD-1 manual. Do you have the newer one in electronic form?
Grace and peace,
Steve
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lightburst
Silver Member
Germany
158 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2005 : 20:38:06
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Check your email
Oh by the way
quote:
Your mods don't bother me.
Uff...that�s good to know
Actually the modded OD-1 is kind of making it more like an old one and for that not really a modification in terms of changing it into something new. I have a MIJ SD-1 wich I modded to OD-1 specs just to see how close I can get soundwise. I added a switch to turn of the tone control and to get the real sugnal path (did you know that the OD-1 turns the signal 180 dergees out of phase and the SD-1 does not?).
As You see I�m a little bit crazy but it�s so much fun to customize my pedals to my own taste.
But the CE-2 is still stock and unmodified! |
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date this ce-2 board.....
