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gmreszel
Copper Member
USA
32 Posts |
 Posted - 06/02/2009 : 21:51:10
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I'm just curious what everyone thinks about certain mods. Stock vs, modified.
To clarify: I had a BD-2 I bought new a few years back and after the first day I put in an Allums H20 mod. The pedal sounded great but I didn't really spend much time on stock to a/b reference. That pedal got sold as my tastes changed like the wind.
Now I'm back on a pedal tangent again and specifically I'm entering a sordid love affair with the BOSS stuff.
Recently acquired: BD-2 (this one's stock), SD-1, MT-2, CE-2, CS-3, DS-1, MD-2 and DD-6. I also have an RV-5 that I've used for awhile. The modulation setting on that box is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard - that warble reminds me of my old Binson Echorec! I've no intention of doing anything to the DD-6 (use and love them ever since they came out) for now. But what of the other toys?
As far as the gain modifiers - BD-2, SD-1, HM-2, DS-1 - are the Allums or Keeley mods worth their salt in the forum's humble o? Same with the CE-2 or CS-3. I say this because I was playing through these boxes today through my '65 Bandmaster into a 4x10 (closed back). I set the Fender for clean and the boxes do all the dirt. At stage level testing I was really enjoying most of the tones. In particular I'm loving the subtle gain crunch of my SD-1. Oh yeah and the stock BD-2 is quite good - it only gets splattery if I get stupid with the gain and I don't run that way live. My least favorite was the parametric-like Q'd in tone on the HM-2 and I probably won't keep the MD-2 (just didn't do it for me).
Allums has some mods for CS-3 and some of the gain modifier pedals where he's changing out (and doubling up) op amps for clarity and all that rot. Is this all good and/or necessary? I realize higher quality and diff value caps and such can shift harmonic content to where it's more pleasing and so on and so forth.
I guess my simple and direct question is what does this forum like and recommend for some of the aforementioned effectors. Or as I'd say when I was a kid growing up in New York, 'What do you'se guys use?'
Ta ahead for your responses, GM Reszel
PS Dr.Bob asked about sounds and guitars he saw on my myspace. For those interested here's my reply at this post: http://www.bossarea.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7338 |
Edited by - gmreszel on 06/04/2009 14:31:52 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 23:17:50
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Hi gmreszel and welcome! I'll tell you what I know - it's not comprehensive.
It is the general opinion that the CE-2 is "state of the art" and shouldn't be modified.
CS-3 comes in two flavours - dBx VCA and THAT VCA (there is only one chip inside with dBx/THAT on it). There is a growing body of evidence (in my mind at least) that if you have a dBx version it is "good". The THAT version might benefit from a mod or two.
DS-1 Keeley mods are good.
SD-1 the "lovepedal eternity" is cool, but a big mod and not to everyone's taste. Keeley mod for this one has a good reputation.
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gmreszel
Copper Member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 23:29:04
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Thank you Laurie, I appreciate the input (see, so far that probably saves me from hacking my CE-2 and I'll check my CS-3).
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Edited by - gmreszel on 06/03/2009 05:01:26 |
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Rich_S
Silver Member
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 03:53:55
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I've tried a couple DS-1 mods. The Keeley Ultrsa mod is better than stock (less shrill and fizzy) but the Allums Recto mod is better still in my book.
SD-1? I like the Allums GT Mod, removes the blanket and gives a bit more old-school transparent tone. However, I recently re-modded my SD-1 to the Lovepedal Eternity specs. I really like it, but as Laurie said, it's not for eveyone. Some might think it's thin. Great clarity, though. I built it because of Andy Summers' use olf a real Eternity on last year's tour.
My BF-2 and CE-2 remain stock. Don't mess with perfection.
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gmreszel
Copper Member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 04:59:31
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| Excellent Rich, thank you for the info! |
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gmreszel
Copper Member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 05:03:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich_SMy BF-2 and CE-2 remain stock. Don't mess with perfection.
Yeah I've always liked the BF. |
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MoonWatcher
Bronze Member
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 04:16:25
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I guess my biggest gripe with a great many mods is that if you're going to put the thing under the knife, it should meet two criteria (IMO):
- It shouldn't be a very conservative mod, i.e. there should be a dramatic improvement or shift from stock form, else why bother (IMO)
- One should be able to return the pedal to stock form if not pleased with the modded version
Folks will probably be at odds with me regarding the first, but that's just my take. But the second one is important, especially if you've hacked the pedal with holes drilled for toggles or DP3T switches or the like. I know that we're talking mass produced pedals here, but I just can't bring myself to take a drill to even a 40USD SD-1 or DS-1.
There also seems to be an inordinate amount of emphasis with mods put on specific componentry, which is fine, but IMO is like concentrating on spices instead of the entire recipe.
There are some folks out there who are trying to push the envelope, but I don't think that they get the press that the big guys get, because it might be too much on the fringe. And the whole toggle thing seems to have all of them chasing each other, at least at the moment. |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 05:26:44
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quote:
Originally posted by MoonWatcher
- It shouldn't be a very conservative mod, i.e. there should be a dramatic improvement or shift from stock form, else why bother (IMO)
- One should be able to return the pedal to stock form if not pleased with the modded version
Agreed. These were the criteria I used for my MT-2 Stormchaser mod development. I've only drilled holes in 4 pedal casings my entire life... three at the request of the owners, and one into my crappiest DS-1 for the SEM (my first ever mod).
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Edited by - Laurie on 06/04/2009 05:33:11 |
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cctsim
Silver Member
United Kingdom
418 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 11:03:50
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| Another important rule for me is to have a second pedal in its stock form so that you can do A/B tests. You'll be disappointingly surprised how little (if anyhow) some mods improve against the stock pedal. |
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MoonWatcher
Bronze Member
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 13:55:30
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quote:
Originally posted by cctsim
You'll be disappointingly surprised how little (if anyhow) some mods improve against the stock pedal.
It oftentimes puzzles me if the average modder actually does much of the A/B thing, because I get the feeling that many do not.
And certain pedals always seem to have a preset condition for what direction the mods should take, i.e. SD-1's have to be made into Tube Screamers (chapter and verse), and the DS-1 is typically modded for more distortion, when the MT-2 already does that.
Perhaps the most amazing thing is that many modders don't like changing resistors much. This can be much more beneficial and refined than just swapping caps.
But the biggest head scratcher of all for me are the BD-2 mods. That circuit requires resistor changes IMO, period. But most of the time it's just cap and clipping diode replacements with a DIP8 op amp thrown in. The jFET circuits have a lot of promise, but few will invest the time, IMO. |
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gmreszel
Copper Member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 14:59:49
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Good observations; yeah, see I'm quite happy with my present gain modifiers (sd1, bd2, mt2) but as I stated earlier it's minor tonalities (except the MT-2). The whole gain and tone envelope of the MT-2 is good but the eq is too narrow - I wish it were a little more natural sounding.
My DS-1 isn't here yet so the word's out until later.
Maybe a minor smoothing of my BD-2, but I've not used it out yet (that will change this weekend). The way I use my SD-1 (as a dirt into clean) also seems good and again I'll find out live. I'm probably running the SD a little different than most. I'm guessing many use the SD to drive an already clipped sound where I'm using it as dirt period. That's probably why I run it so hot - both gain and volume are high but I'm getting this cool clean mixed with dirt sound.
The stage is the proving ground; your levels are different than home or studio. On stage you're hearing how your tone works with the rest of the band. Some tones fight to be heard (or get lost) and some take over on certain frequencies to where by the time you quell the volume to tame that you're again lost in the mix. My credo is smooth out the spikey tones. For my taste the guitar should occupy a sweet midrange area with brilliance being in 2nd and boomy bass take the hindmost. The guitar is not a bass instrument - the thundering bass tones in your bedroom are awesome but they won't cut through live - your sound tech will either eq out that spike or the lazy ones (most of the ones I deal with) will just turn you down and you're playing with yourself so to speak
CCT and Moon, when modding pedals, yeah an a/b thing would be good and/or perhaps recording a/b would also be good.
I don't think I'll change my chorus or compressor they seem fine.
Moon, you mention just some minor resistor changes and such for BD-2. Is there a post or schemo or theory post that helps me explore these simple changes? I think that's what I'm after is subtle refining for the bd.
I think the tonal change in my MT-2 needs to be a bit more dramatic before I can use it live and not have the desk tech 'suck-button' me out of the mix. Laurie, you mentioned a 'stormchaser' for this - where can I find info or post?
Again ta very much for your input, I'll go back to my cave now ;) |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 15:01:35
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quote:
Originally posted by cctsim
Another important rule for me is to have a second pedal in its stock form so that you can do A/B tests. You'll be disappointingly surprised how little (if anyhow) some mods improve against the stock pedal.
Obviously, as techies, our ears aren't well enough educated to detect the tonal subtleties... OR... maybe some mods just don't change thngs very much  My aplolgies to those members with much better tuned ears than mine - it's just that sometimes I'm a bit overwhelmed by the bullcrap I read about this elsewhere on the internet.
It's always struck me as odd that some folks talk about how much difference a $0.02 capacitor can make. Particularly when, at commercial quantity costs, the average pedal has maybe less than $5 worth of components in it. Buy a good used $1000 tube amp and then you can talk about "tone".
Oh crap, I'm on a rant. Sorry. </Rant_mode>
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gmreszel
Copper Member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 15:15:37
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quote:
Obviously, as techies, our ears aren't well enough educated to detect the tonal subtleties... OR... maybe some mods just don't change thngs very much My aplolgies to those members with much better tuned ears than mine - it's just that sometimes I'm a bit overwhelmed by the bullcrap.. I Buy a good used $1000 tube amp and then you can talk about "tone".
Oh crap, I'm on a rant. Sorry. </Rant_mode>
Yeah, Laurie, I know what you mean. There's way too much talk about tone and toys these days and less about learning to actually practice your instrument to be a better player. It is here that you do get to know your instrument in every respect: from knowing when it's in tune or not, from playing the notes that sound good and from the tones it produces and how to change them. It is here (when you get to be doing this for so long) that the one subtlety can make a big difference. I loved Paul Reed's response to everyone getting on Eric Johnson about the battery thing; "Eric Johnson's not crazy - he's just listening!" When I hear Eric Johnson I can't argue with that!
PS, I found your stormchaser, thank you - I'll check it out! |
Edited by - gmreszel on 06/04/2009 15:34:57 |
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archimedes
Silver Member
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 16:05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by gmreszel
I'm just curious what everyone thinks about certain mods. Stock vs, modified.
Having had a little experience with modded pedals and still not found the holy grail I think that that biggest problem with all mods is that you are usually taking a shot in the dark. It's all down to your ears (and fingers) and all the samples and reviews on the net will not ultimately help that much at the end of the day. Best thing IMHO is to get to a good store (or stores) with a wide selection of the type of box you are after on a quiet day and try them all out until you find the right one. That way you can hear for yourself.
Of course if you have found something that you almost love and can perhaps mod carefully (if you have the skills) one change at a time. That might work but again that will be you listening for what you want to hear.
David |
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gmreszel
Copper Member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 16:11:37
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quote:
Originally posted by archimedes
quote:
Originally posted by gmreszel
I'm just curious what everyone thinks about certain mods. Stock vs, modified.
Having had a little experience with modded pedals and still not found the holy grail I think that that biggest problem with all mods is that you are usually taking a shot in the dark.
David you are exactly correct, thus the trial and error and the many items bought and sold at the ElectronicBay. |
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archimedes
Silver Member
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 17:28:40
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quote:
David you are exactly correct, thus the trial and error and the many items bought and sold at the ElectronicBay.
I also meant to say that I think that spending a bit more time and perhaps a bit more money initially at a store would have cost me less than some of my trials and errors did in the long run. |
Edited by - archimedes on 06/04/2009 17:29:42 |
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Opinions on mods, keeley, allums, et al
