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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
 Posted - 03/28/2007 : 13:20:46
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The three new compact ones will be in the shops next week in Sweden, price around $140.
Who will be the first one on this forum for a review?? Probably not me as I have blown too much money on the Fender ones (and my wife knows that) ..
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ChristoMephisto
Platinum Member
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 15:13:48
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Curious to see if anyone tries using another envelope pedal with the DN-2
like the sg-1 or a ft-2, or all three |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 09:01:04
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I tested DN-2 for a couple of minutes at a music store and the dynamics was impressive, maybe a little too impressive
It sounded like a good overdrive anyway, and for the short time I tried itīs one worth trying.
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2007 : 18:04:46
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I finally got the DN-2, ML-2 and FZ-5 today. The first thing that struct me was that they all got dark gray labels and that means they're digital. For the FZ-5 that makes perfect sense as it's a COSM pedal but for the other two it was a little surprising. I decided to have a look inside...
The first observation is that the PCBs look almost identical. They're sourced from a company called Shuang Ming and has Made in Taiwan printed on them. It is also surprising to see that the DN-2 and the FZ-5 shares the same PCB. As does the ML-2 and FDR-1. Now how is that possible unless the DN-2 and ML-2 are also both COSM devices?
The top picture is the ML-2 while the bottom is the DN-2. They look very similar, don't they? The only hand soldering are the wires going to the jacks, switches and pots. The soldering is not high quality. It looks like it's been soldered with too much heat and two solder points in the DN-2 will probably go cold by the time the warranty expires.
The side view of the DN-2 shows how there's a big chip inside. The same chip is in the ML-2 and this side of the PCB is virtually indistinguishable between the two pedals.
From a quick peek at the design it looks like the circuits aren't designed as they used to be. Instead the design is the same and the sound they produce can be changed through software. Can't say for sure if this is the case but it wouldn't surprise me if it is.
But how do they sound?
I plugged in the ML-2 first. It's got more gain than the MT-2 but less than the MD-2. It's got more distortion than both the others and it can really make a low gain amp turn into a high gain. I got a good Mesa feeling when I cranked up the dist. The tone controls are as usual very sensitive and I found the best sound with bass on 6 and treble on 5 (assuming controls go from 0-10).
The DN-2 was next. It's got a very warm overdrive sound that totally blew me away. It doesn't have a mid tone hump like many other Boss overdrives. I would guess that the frequency characteristics are slightly U shaped but that's a wild guess. The dynamics are much more pronounced than in the BD-2 and OD-3 but it suits this pedal and I have a feeling it's going to be a big hit with me.
The on to the FZ-5. There's 3 modes: F (Fuzzface), M (Maestro) and O (Octavia). I don't have any of the originals so I can't comment on how close the simulation is. The M mode is very trebly and is dead silent when I'm not playing. Sounds a bit weird but maybe the original is the same way. The O mode is really muddy with sounds popping out from everywhere. The F mode is however my fav here. It doesn't have as much treble as the other two and is a good old fashion fuzz that's useful in everything from 70s rock to grunge.
So after a quick 10 minute test of each pedal I will say that the DN-2 is awesome, the ML-2 fills a gap in the distortion lineup while the FZ-5 has some good sounds and some not so good.
More testing is definitely needed  |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2007 : 18:20:38
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Hi Bossarea & Guys
Thanks VERY MUCH ... 
I think we all just learned a heap.
It was a bit of Technical shock to see that the pedals all appear to be mechanically & PCB wise, the same.
Did you take any note of the numbers on the processor-DSP or whatever that IC is.
I'm guessing that you are correct in assuming that is only the firmware that changes.
Might I hazard a guess, that it maybe the IC has the firmware for all the pedals in it. & that they nay be just adding a jumper or small value surface mount resistor-link, to enable or disable the various versions of firmware.
I know that you will have to pull them apart again to have a look.
But if you do, could you pay very close attention, to see if my hunch is correct.
Else the numbering on the IC may change, & then, it's as you suspected, they have different IC's for different pedals.
Anyway thanks again for the great Pics & sample review.
Maybe a Bossarea - sound demo file, of the DN-2?
It will be interesting to get long term reliability data on these new surface mounted pedals.
Regards Dr. Bob |
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sp-1
Platinum Member
Germany
1454 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2007 : 19:26:08
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| Why does it both say ml-2 and fdr-1 in the right upper corner of the first board and both fz-5 and dn-2 on the second board ? |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2007 : 20:12:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Bob
Did you take any note of the numbers on the processor-DSP or whatever that IC is.
Unfortunately I didn't. I took a bunch of pictures and assumed I'd be able to see it when I got them copied to the computer. Sadly the close-ups were out of focus. All I remember is that the it's a Roland chip 
quote:
Might I hazard a guess, that it maybe the IC has the firmware for all the pedals in it. & that they nay be just adding a jumper or small value surface mount resistor-link, to enable or disable the various versions of firmware.
That's possible but I won't pull them apart again just yet. This also presents a new oportunity for modding. It might be possible to upload new models or changed model settings into the pedal.
quote:
Maybe a Bossarea - sound demo file, of the DN-2?
A bit too busy right now but possibly later.
quote:
Originally posted by sp-1
Why does it both say ml-2 and fdr-1 in the right upper corner of the first board and both fz-5 and dn-2 on the second board ?
The same PCB is used for both pedals. This isn't the first time Boss has done this. IIRC the RV-3 and the PS-3 also shared the same layout. |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 07:58:24
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The only hand soldering are the wires going to the jacks, switches and pots. The soldering is not high quality. It looks like it's been soldered with too much heat and two solder points in the DN-2 will probably go cold by the time the warranty expires.
Great review Bossarea!!!!
Is this bad soldering something new to Boss pedals or very unusual?
Or is it regular since the last five, ten or X years?
I havenīt look that closely on later pedals but as the old ones are beauties in my opinion and I think that they were very good soldered.
I think that an old Boss pedal stopped working because of cold solder joints is quite rare, am I right here?
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Edited by - Goran on 04/12/2007 08:00:50 |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 09:38:06
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I think this is a new thing. Older pedals have always been soldered to the highest standards. Was wondering if this could have something to do with the RoHS introduction last year. From then on they're using lead free solder. Maybe they haven't got the temperature set corrrectly yet or maybe the soldering technique is a little different? I haven't tried that stuff yet.
Was also surprised to see how the wires are connected. Usually they're all leaving the pcb from one side so you can flip the whole card out. On the new ones there are wires leaving the card everywhere so it's soldered into place. Not a very good design for troubleshooting. |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 10:57:26
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quote:
Originally posted by bossarea
I think this is a new thing. Older pedals have always been soldered to the highest standards. Was wondering if this could have something to do with the RoHS introduction last year. From then on they're using lead free solder. Maybe they haven't got the temperature set corrrectly yet or maybe the soldering technique is a little different? I haven't tried that stuff yet.
Then maybe the debated discussions of MIJ versus MIT could be overshadowed by the more relevant pre or post RoHS discussion. There seems to be more concrete things regarding this, we can actually see it not just guess weīre hearing it.
Anyway, letīs hope this is just temporary difficulties.
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 11:42:11
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We should probably crack open a few more pedals too.
Mine may have been put together on a Monday morning and may not be representative. |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 13:53:34
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Slightly off topic,but i use lead free solder in my work(plumber) when soldering fittings on copper pipework and i don't like the lead free solder at all,i find it very hard to get it to stick even with flux when wiping fittings it seems to 'roll off' in blobs whre with the lead solder it would stick much better.... just my two cents... |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 14:04:27
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| This could be an explanation of the bad soldering, not that the people at Boss has started to do amateurish soldering. That itīs impossible do a nice work with the lead free solder. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 16:02:09
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Hi Guys
In our Workshop-Lab, We are just... starting to see some products
that are RoHS compliant.
We have gone the whole route, og getting RoHS compliant equipment for a few of the workstations.
So far the results have not been going to well.
Lead Free RoHS boards are difficult to work on,
and I seem to hear that from everyone, who is attempting to switch to Lead Free.
There seems to be little problem, for those that manufacture & vapor phase solder PCB's
It looks like the Next Very Collectible Boss pedals-s will be Pre-RoHS -- With Lead Based Solder pedals. 
I think we discussed this in a thread about 6 months ago?
Hand soldering seems to be of poor quality, even after the operator-Tech had done the $1500Au 3-day Lead free RoHS course.
So far, I don't feel confident, about Lead Free Solder.
I recently got a Behringer 2.6 sec digital delay pedal, in a bunch of stuff.
It has a RoHS sticker on the side of it. I'll pull it apart & have a look at the quality, I'll see if I can get a few pics as well.
I know some of my friends are starting to hoard 60/40 leaded solder
Just in case, it become difficult to purchase.
Well that's my two & a half cents worth.
Regards Dr. Bob  |
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Topic |
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DN-2, FZ-5 and the metal one
