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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2008 : 10:11:40
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I think a lot of this stuff ...i.e amp simulators,attenuators...etc came on the market at the same time.. as a partial solution to bringing volume levels down,but having tried most of them...i still think a good overdrive pedal is the way to go unless your amp has channel switching etc..... my amps are fairly old and two of them don't have master volume controls so i think that i'm the sort of customer that the designers were aimimg at... all these devices are aimed at letting you drive your amp hard but(and i can only speak for myself here) this would be very limiting for me as i need a broad range of sounds and having tried the 'control the amp from the guitar' school..this would be ok for a straight up rock/blues band but for all round stuff a clean amp and a good overdrive for me works best........ |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 03/14/2008 10:13:06 |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 10:50:57
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There are many solutions to the problem of too much volume, aside from attenuators, many mentioned above, this comes to my mind:
Pedals
Turning the speaker against the back wall
Use shields at the front of the speakers, this could be a carpet, a piece of wood or even the things used in studios to prevent leakage
Use low efficient speakers
Use low wattage amps
Pull out two tubes in a four tube output section (don�t do this until you have read about it!)
Here is something about removing tubes:
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/archive/index.php/t-1779914.html
I�ve read about it in one of Gerald Webers books
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Edited by - Goran on 03/14/2008 11:03:33 |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 11:22:32
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I tried the tube pulling thing goran and to be honet i didn't think it lowered the volume that much..what it did was let the amp distort quicker but i think putting the shield in front of the amp is probably the best especially with a smaller amp or what some guitarists are doing is to get one of the speakers that are built into a soundproof box with a mic on it and D.I. it through the P.A.,recording desk etc..... i found getting a tube overdrive pedal was the best solution for me and if i need to crank an amp ..i just use my little selmer..... ..... |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 13:53:15
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I can't remember if pulling two of the four tubes will halve the power output or drop it to one quarter... At any rate, halving the power will lower the volume 3dB - which is often barely noticable to the human ear. As a general rule, it needs to be 6dB lower to really be noticable.
Laurie.
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Edited by - Laurie on 03/14/2008 13:54:00 |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 13:57:22
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quote:
Originally posted by lauries2
I can't remember if pulling two of the four tubes will halve the power output or drop it to one quarter... At any rate, halving the power will lower the volume 3dB - which is often barely noticable to the human ear. As a general rule, it needs to be 6dB lower to really be noticable.
Laurie.
If the power increases that little why bother with four output tubes when two reach nearly the same output level??? There must be something more to it�. |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 05:29:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Goran
If the power increases that little why bother with four output tubes when two reach nearly the same output level??? There must be something more to it�.
I've been thinking about this all day... While the answer is simple for transistor amps - "there really is nothing more to it" (other than the 3dB volume increase), it's not so easy for tube amps.
This site can explain it far better than I can:
http://users.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/amppower.htm
Regards,
Laurie
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Edited by - Laurie on 03/15/2008 05:30:17 |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 05:47:22
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Hey lauries, here's a thread I started about a month ago (before you were left on our doorstep) that may interest you. I suspect you'll have something to add 
http://www.bossarea.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3960 |
Edited by - DeFrag on 03/15/2008 05:48:01 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 05:51:31
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quote:
Originally posted by DeFrag
(before you were left on our doorstep)
At least my mum had the good sense to leave me somewhere interesting  |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2008 : 19:39:02
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quote:
Originally posted by pedals 4 pv
I don't see the logic behind spending 3-400 bucks on a device the make a big amp sound like a small amp, when you can just buy a small amp. A Fender Champ is only $299.99 US List. I am probably missing the point, but it makes me wonder.
Larger amps/cabs & combos sound as different as night & day compared to smaller amps. A smaller amp may be ideal for a particular venue, but a larger amp can be extremely versatile with an attenuator & can be used for small coffee house to the large stage.
Speaker selection, efficiencies, & breakup characteristics are key to understanding the tonal differences between a small amp vs. large amp + attenuator... its all about the sound. I'm not saying an attenuator is for everybody or all application, just that its a method to get driven tube characteristics & lower volumes while retaining for the most part the larger amp sound. |
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Erik dP
Silver Member
Sweden
150 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2008 : 16:32:43
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Now I havn't read all posts here but an atteunator can be made from something as simple as a lightbulb. At the same time it will work as a compressor if used in series to the speaker (or the opposite if used in parallell). It may add some thermical noise though. I tried to find some explainations on the internet with a quick search and found this:
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1506879/page/0/fpart/3
Cut'n'pasted:
"The light bulb thing is more than an attenuator, it's probably Nature's Simplest Compressor.
By adding this one part you can get a gentle almost organic compression effect. Play softly, the lightbulb doesn't light, it's resistance stays very low, and there is no attenuation.
Play harder, the lightbulb lights, it's resistance increases dramatically and therefore so does attenuation. Voila, compression. The attack time of the compressor depends on how long it takes for the bulb's filament to "turn on."
A 4w bulb with a Valve Junior yields pretty heavy compression, a 7w sounds nominal, and higher wattages don't do much. With higher wattage amps, the bulb values need to scale accordingly, and with real amps in the 50w and up range you'll start needing to wire bulbs in parallel. Plus it looks kinda cool cuz it flashes while you play."
Just one more thing:
"Where you can run into trouble is if the bulb burns out and there's no load on the amp's output. That can fry the output transformer.
Some amps are already protected by a resistor across the output. The Valve Junior's not. I'd recommend soldering a 5W power resistor of about 80-100 ohms across the terminals of the output jack. (Assuming you're using the original 4 ohm output.) That'll keep the tranny from turning into a spark coil if you play it without a load plugged in. "
I guess that this last thing could be avoided if a matrix of bulbs, 2*2 or more, is created as an alternative to the above as maybe some bulbs survive from dying. |
Edited by - Erik dP on 11/21/2008 16:47:23 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2008 : 17:06:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik dP
Now I havn't read all posts here but an atteunator can be made from something as simple as a lightbulb.
This exact technique is used to protect compression drivers in high power PA speakers. My crappy peaveys have it, and my higher end JBLs have it. It works.
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Edited by - Laurie on 11/21/2008 17:07:11 |
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Attenuators
