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strat714
Silver Member
USA
156 Posts |
 Posted - 07/08/2009 : 19:31:07
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quote:
Okay, so it�s my understanding that the SD-1 is the OD-1, but with a tone control added. As such, with all controls set to 12:00, do both pedals sound (and feel) the same?
Yes, as long as it's a MIJ SD-1. The newer MIT models are much different (IMHO) than an OD-1. |
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nathanscribe
Silver Member
United Kingdom
376 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2009 : 14:50:46
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I've just sold my DS-1 and SD-1, and kept the Yamaha DI-01 and my home-made MXR Dist+ copy. I think they're both good but the SD-1 Tone control lacks flexibility for me - it loses too much low end and has a narrow spread and I found myself wanting something either with a flatter response or with separate Bass and Treble controls, perhaps. The DS-1 was another nearly-but-not-quite for me too. I just want a very gentle crunch. I haven't tried a genuine MXR D+, but my copy sounds pretty much how I want.
I reckon I'll make an OD-1 copy and see how that goes - I think the OD-3 uses a very different circuit. I like the simplicity of the OD-1/SD-1. |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 08:20:01
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There's several variations on the OD-1 that all sound different. The JRC4558DD op amp OD-1's are quite similar to SD-1's. The other op amp versions of the OD-1 have significantly more bite than the SD-1 does. While the 4558DD's are smoother and with more gain potential, 4558D's (or similar) have much higher cutting power and a touch more volume boost. Since most OD-1's did not have a 4558DD (and most people own dual op amp OD-1's), i'll work from the assumption that my OD-1 references are to one of the non-4558DD dual op amp versions.
While their circuits are similar, the OD-1's (as well as tube screamers) are closer to an overdriven marshall super-lead/plexi. SD-1's are a bit closer to overdriven jcm800 but with a more compressed feel. OD-1's basically require a tube amp to sound good as they are a bit too brittle on the high end going through solid state. OD-1's tend to exert some mid-boost and bass suck but are fairly transparent into tube amps.
SD-1's vary a lot from era to era, with the most noticeable differences being from very early (ss) versions vs. later versions and then another big jump from the true ACA versions to the PSA versions. the early ones let a lot more bass through than later ones. the PSA versions seem to have "shrunk" the dynamic range of the pedal a bit. under-volting an ACA version basically removes any teeth and muds it out.
SD-1's do a good job of performing transparently into a high gain tube amp and are a LOT smoother through solid state than most overdrive pedals (OD-1, TS, BD-2, etc.). however, input impedance issues, bleed issues, lack of cutting power, and lack of boost/volume affect it negatively. imo, from boss's line going for tube amp overdrive simulation, the SD-1 does quite well (along with the OD-2 and SD-2) and it's one of the better pedals available for this purpose.
to answer the original question, no, most OD-1's and SD-1's will not sound the same with the controls set to 12:00. however, with the controls at 12, a JRC4558DD OD-1 will sound nearly identical to a similar year SD-1. i haven't popped a 4558D into an old SD-1 to compare it to a 4558D OD-1.
SD-1's are pretty much a modders dream (assuming you bleed fix them). you can do a TS808 or OD-1 conversion for around $1 or something like a full drive 2 conversion for about $5.
BD-2's are more of an overdriven class A or tweed type amp. not good with solid state.
OD-3's are closer to an OD-1/Tubescreamer type in terms of its gain levels and cutting power, but it has a couple of major differences. while it's pretty good on bass retention, it sucks treble badly... seems like you lose 1k-1.5khz off the high end vs. an OD-1 or TS. also, while it does have some mid boost, it feels a bit muffled/muddied through the mids as though it's trying to add some nuttage through those frequencies without adding any crunch. supposedly you can remove one diode and get rid of the muffled mids. it's fairly transparent through a tube amp minus the treble/mid issues but is only ok through solid state. it's lack of treble keeps it from feeling too rough on the high end when going through solid state.
OD-2's are pretty versatile but lack boost. i dig the tone though, very organic boost/drive feel on the channel 1 and a very organic high gain overdrive in turbo mode. i would compare turbo mode to a jcm800 driven with a TS.
SD-2's are similar in versatility to an OD-2 but a bit different as well. The rhythm channel is noisier but is a little less compressed feeling. compares a bit to the overdrive sound on a JCM900's "clean" channel. the lead channel is one of the higher gain overdrives out there, that is somewhere between a JCM900's lead channel and a peavey ultra.
both the OD-2 and SD-2 work well through tube or solid state amps.
quote:
I think they're both good but the SD-1 Tone control lacks flexibility for me - it loses too much low end and has a narrow spread and I found myself wanting something either with a flatter response or with separate Bass and Treble controls, perhaps.
removing or changing C6 in an SD-1 opens things up. you can't really get rid of the mid-boost. the problem is with trying to add crunch, is that adding mids/treble is one factor that helps add true crunch. it sounds more like you want something that adds fuzz/dirt without any boost, which yes, an MXR D+ or MIJ DS-1 is a better choice for that.
you are probably best off investigating distortion pedals ahead of overdrives. a SEM modded DS-1 (ideally with an op amp swap to a Toshiba TA7136AP if it's a newer DS-1) might do the trick. |
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archimedes
Silver Member
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 09:50:12
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quote:
Originally posted by zentropa
There's several variations on the OD-1 that all sound different. The JRC4558DD op amp OD-1's are quite similar to SD-1's.
<snip>
Thanks for that post Zentropa, very useful
Re the OD-3 though, I wouldn't mod it by removing diodes, to my ears that has an adverse effect on the quality of the overdrive, there are a few key capacitor changes that can get you lots of tonal variation including much more top end. |
Edited by - archimedes on 07/10/2009 09:52:30 |
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nathanscribe
Silver Member
United Kingdom
376 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 11:19:51
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quote:
Originally posted by archimedes
Thanks for that post Zentropa, very useful[/quote]
Seconded. Thanks for the info.
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 14:12:29
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Yeah +1 on what Zen just said.
It would be really great to have an archive of sound samples for all the revisions of the OD-1.
I'm still chasing the early first version with the 3403 op-amp.
To the point of collecting old consumer gear to recover any possible 3403's.
nathanscribe, Laurie & myself have just recently been discussing this topic,
& the possibility of making a clone/s with both the 3403 & 747 opamp versions.
Hey Zen - Did you read my post from about 6-8 months back, where I picked up a MIT DS-1, that sounds like nothing I have in my MIJ SS collection?
It's just one of those freaky (all the planets were aligned) pedals.
The tone out of this pedal is just amazing.
And yes you read correctly, it's a silver lable MIT DS-1.
Regards Dr. Bob 
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Edited by - Dr. Bob on 07/10/2009 14:13:26 |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 16:36:45
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quote:
Re the OD-3 though, I wouldn't mod it by removing diodes, to my ears that has an adverse effect on the quality of the overdrive, there are a few key capacitor changes that can get you lots of tonal variation including much more top end.
if i remember, the diode that gets removed isn't one of the clipping diodes, either that or it's a secondary clipping diode. i had one person ask me about how to "open up" their OD-3 and i found that mod after doing some reading. they ended up doing it and loved it. i haven't done it to mine, i just know what issues i have with the pedal. i just purged nearly all of my pedals and i ended up keeping the OD-3 and sold off all my SD-1's and OD-1's. the OD-3 just has less issues
quote:
Hey Zen - Did you read my post from about 6-8 months back, where I picked up a MIT DS-1, that sounds like nothing I have in my MIJ SS collection?
It's just one of those freaky (all the planets were aligned) pedals.
The tone out of this pedal is just amazing.
And yes you read correctly, it's a silver lable MIT DS-1.
nope, i didn't read it. it's funny with the DS-1. i've owned about 25 of them but it's only in the past 2 years when i picked up a few early 80's DS-1's (80-84) that it became one of my favorite pedals. early DS-1's sound a lot more like overdrives than distortions. |
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DS 1
Copper Member
14 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2009 : 20:25:14
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Awesome post Zentropa!!
That's just the kinda feedback I was hoping for.
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SD-1 vs. OD-1
