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DJo_666
Copper Member
Canada
1 Posts |
 Posted - 01/26/2009 : 23:15:14
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I've noticed that my DD-3 gives clipped delays when it's in the effects loop of my JSX head. The issue apparently is that the DD-3 likes an instrument level signal and can't handle the -10dBu of this amp's effects loop. The direct signal is fine, but the delays are clipped and sound like a farting noise when playing hard on the clean channel.
My question is: why aren't delay pedals designed to operate at line level? They should at least be capable of handling either line or instrument level signals, although unless one operates a single-channel amp I don't see how it would work anywhere except in the loop. It looks like the new Hardwire pedals from Digitech are designed to compensate for this, but this is the exception that should be a rule. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2009 : 23:37:34
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Hi DJo_666
Welcome to the forum from Australia.
While you make a very valid point.
I guess your question can really only be answered, by the design Engineers & Marketing group at Roland/Boss.
Have you considered building a simple resistive pad to lower the level
from the send, you should be able to compensate for the initial loss in level, by increasing the level on the DD-3.
The pad could also be made with a trim pot.
Regards Dr. Bob. |
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starr36
Platinum Member
Canada
1172 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2009 : 07:49:29
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never had in issue running dd-2, dd-3, dd-5, dd-5 thru fx loop on my Mesa amp or fender amps; neither have/had adjustable send levels. Most Mesa amps control the effect "send" output level with the channel master volume control; you may want to see if there is such a circuitry issue with your JSX (Mesa Boogie amps equalizer and level controls all slightly affect one another, i.e. at low volume increasing the treble *may also boost mids, crank up the channel volume and you *may perceive increased bass response, most energy is focused through the treble control so one needs to be a careful listener, once you 'get' how this all works and the subtleness, it really really helps the enjoyment of a boogie amp.
hola a todos |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2009 : 18:20:35
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Welcome to Bossarea DJo_666!  |
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FunkenGrooven
Silver Member
USA
360 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2009 : 00:18:13
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| Ok I'm having similar problem I am now running my time and mod based effects through my Rectoverbs loop but with my DD20 if I turn the effect level up it starts to make a low pulsating sound through the amp there is an FX send knob on the amp that I have dimmed if I turn it down it goes away but then you can't here the delays very well whats the deal with that? |
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zerksies
Double Platinum Member
USA
3406 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2009 : 02:01:10
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| i couldn't tell you the answer but it is always best to put it before the amp |
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IM28
Copper Member
26 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 16:42:46
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quote:
Originally posted by DJo_666
I've noticed that my DD-3 gives clipped delays when it's in the effects loop of my JSX head. The issue apparently is that the DD-3 likes an instrument level signal and can't handle the -10dBu of this amp's effects loop. The direct signal is fine, but the delays are clipped and sound like a farting noise when playing hard on the clean channel.
My question is: why aren't delay pedals designed to operate at line level? They should at least be capable of handling either line or instrument level signals, although unless one operates a single-channel amp I don't see how it would work anywhere except in the loop. It looks like the new Hardwire pedals from Digitech are designed to compensate for this, but this is the exception that should be a rule.
I would say the rule should be amp manufacturers should equip their amps with effect loops that can accomodate instrument AND line level devices. This is pretty simple to do instead of the lame -10dBv minimum level of the JSX. This is a perennial problem with amp effects loops, they are all over the place with regards to standards. Peavey knows that guitar players want to use pedals in the loop and they know that pedals are designed to accomdate INstrument level signals.
Of course the other problem is the mutiple nominal reference standards for Microphone/Instrument/Line levels. There are even 2 line level standards, consumer(-10dbv) and professional (+4dbu).
Good luck if you have a mix of all three types to interface. Without some kind of level conversion device you end up with noise, distortion (not the good kind)and crappy sound.
Boss/Roland engineers choose to run their compact pedals on 9V batteries long ago. This limits the maximum signals a pedal can handle without clipping. Digitech has incorporated some kind of voltage conversion in the Hardwire pedal to allow higher headroom.
The manual does not actually say what the maximum input levels are so they still might clip in the JSX loop. |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 08:52:02
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quote:
Originally posted by DJo_666
My question is: why aren't delay pedals designed to operate at line level?
The DD-20 is. It has a line/instrument switch.
The long-chip DD-3 and DD-2 will also operate very happily at line level - I use mine in a boosted leg of my signal chain that is in excess of line level and it has no problems with headroom.
<rant mode>
There is no reason a 9V pedal can't be designed to operate at line level... it takes time and patience to tune the design but it can be done. +4dBu is only 3.472Vp-p which is easily acheivable from a 9VDC single ended supply. And the whole "noise" argument (equipment designed for +4dBu is noisy when used at instrument level) doesn't hold water - with good design, the SNR will still be 70dB+ and that really isn't a problem using the pedal with a guitar amp.
</rant mode>
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Edited by - Laurie on 08/01/2009 08:58:09 |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2009 : 02:03:06
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Welcome to the forum from ireland.... .. very strange as satriani uses (or did up to a while back) boss pedals including a DD-2 and a DD-3 he had his mod/delay pedals on a seperate small board so i'm assuming this is becase he was running them in the effects loop of his amp..this was before he started his own series of effects.....so you would imagine the engineers at peavey would have seen this if it was a problem.... we have a made in china solid state marshall combo in our rehearsal space that has a switch to change from -10 to +4 on the loop and this is a low priced amp..... ....... |
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DD-3 in effects loop
