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csmatt45
Copper Member
USA
7 Posts |
 Posted - 02/21/2008 : 03:47:38
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Hi I just was wondering if anyone else has noticed something that I have.
On my board I have a double true-bypass loop and run two sets of effects through each one.
I'm not a die-hard true bypass guy, and have no problem with buffered effects. I say that so you know I'm not over-anylizing everything and hearing things that aren't there.
Here's what I've noticed. It seems most newer Boss pedals (my dd-6, tu-2, ce-5) are just fine in my loop, very little volume-drop, or high end roll-off or "tone suck".
But any of my older "ACA" pedals (I have the correct power supplies), seem to have a much more noticeable degradation in tone when in the chain. These are, "silver screw" ds-1, ph-1r, MIJ sd-1 and others.
Anyone else notice that the "ACA" 25 years + pedals are harder on your signal than newer ones?
thanks,
matt
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sirshack
Copper Member
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 04:04:40
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| I think that, across the board, most non-true bypass effects have better buffers and degrade unaffected tone less than maybe even 10 years ago. |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 04:15:50
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I would say thats what people love about pedals.. some affect your tone in a good way and some don't..... ..i use old amps 'cause i i like the way their not too trebly and i like the older BBD analog boss as well as the slightly newer stuff as i find one complements the other in the mix..i found for me that the DD-3 the TR-2 work best i couldn't get on with boss dist/drive in the end..i couldn't say with complete honesty that i mightn't go with analogman on the compression/chorus road but for the moment until something else comes across the CS-3 and the CH-1 are staying...... |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 07:13:54
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Hi csmatt45 & guys
Don't forget that the older Boss pedals had lower input impedances,
compared to the 1Meg Ohm plus impedances of the newer pedals.
The lower impedances, will rob you of some of your tone.
Regards Dr. Bob |
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Caliban
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
145 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 08:24:14
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| Can you get around that problem with the older pedals by having a high impedence input buffered pedal at the front of your pedal chain? Or do you need to have the older pedals in a separate loop? |
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csmatt45
Copper Member
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 08:45:42
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Thanks Dr. Bob!
This has been making me nutty, I did not know about the impedance differences on the older pedals. I love getting a nice straight answer when a problem is bugging me.
CALIBAN, I can tell you that putting a high impedance pedal before the vintage pedals doesn't work, I tried it. For now I've just been using a "boutique" MOSFET-based clean boost at the end of the loop, which is basically a buffer with a vol. pot instead of a fixed resistor. It works quite nicely.
Dr. Bob, do you know Bill W.?
thanks,
Matt |
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ChristoMephisto
Platinum Member
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 12:21:23
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If your worried about tone lose, throw a EH2 Enhancer at the end of your chain. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 13:09:15
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quote:
Originally posted by csmatt45
Thanks Dr. Bob!
This has been making me nutty, I did not know about the impedance differences on the older pedals. I love getting a nice straight answer when a problem is bugging me.
CALIBAN, I can tell you that putting a high impedance pedal before the vintage pedals doesn't work, I tried it. For now I've just been using a "boutique" MOSFET-based clean boost at the end of the loop, which is basically a buffer with a vol. pot instead of a fixed resistor. It works quite nicely.
Dr. Bob, do you know Bill W.?
thanks,
Matt
Hi csmatt45-Matt
Bill W? what does the W stand for?
And is he an Aussie?
What does he do - or is famous-infamous for? 
I couldn't see any connection between the topic & the individual.
So I guess for now... The answer is no.
Christo comment about adding an EH-2 is very valid.
Some of the other places you might get tone loss from is the fact that the components have aged, especially the electro caps in the older (any) pedals.
I repaired a Monarch (made in Oz) amplifier a few months ago, where all the ceramic disc 0.1uf caps went microphonic.. 
One case to mention, is my first CS-2.
It suffers from high frequency loss, it actually kills the tone of any guitar I connect to it, single or h/bucker.
I bought a second one, for a comparison & the 2nd one works like all the hype I have read abut it.
I managed to get a schematic for the CS-2 & I now have a much better idea of what is causing the hight frequency-treble loss.
Christo held my hand for a bit on this one, & lent a great big sympathetic ear to all my complaints about how lousy the CS-2 sounded. (thanks Christo).
So the next rainy day-season, I'll most likely have 2 working CS-2's
Regards Dr. Bob |
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csmatt45
Copper Member
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 17:50:17
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quote:
One case to mention, is my first CS-2.
It suffers from high frequency loss, it actually kills the tone of any guitar I connect to it, single or h/bucker.
I bought a second one, for a comparison & the 2nd one works like all the hype I have read abut it.
I managed to get a schematic for the CS-2 & I now have a much better idea of what is causing the hight frequency-treble loss.
so what was it??
The Bill W. thing was just a reference to a book...
Regarding the enhancer (eh-2), I'm not a big fan of enhancers except in a recording context.
As much as I hate this over-used term, I'm going for something "transparent" with regards to buffers and boosters, although the mosfet boosters do add a little shimmer to the over-all tone, especially with Fendery single coil type guitars...
thanks for the input guys.
Matt |
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verivorax
Platinum Member
Canada
1185 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 21:00:55
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Are your SS pedals expecting the 12v ACA??
Should clear up in a chain though.. |
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visserman
Platinum Member
1072 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 11:44:21
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quote:
Originally posted by csmatt45
Hi I just was wondering if anyone else has noticed something that I have.
On my board I have a double true-bypass loop and run two sets of effects through each one.
I'm not a die-hard true bypass guy, and have no problem with buffered effects. I say that so you know I'm not over-anylizing everything and hearing things that aren't there.
Here's what I've noticed. It seems most newer Boss pedals (my dd-6, tu-2, ce-5) are just fine in my loop, very little volume-drop, or high end roll-off or "tone suck".
But any of my older "ACA" pedals (I have the correct power supplies), seem to have a much more noticeable degradation in tone when in the chain. These are, "silver screw" ds-1, ph-1r, MIJ sd-1 and others.
Anyone else notice that the "ACA" 25 years + pedals are harder on your signal than newer ones?
thanks,
matt
What you hear is capacitors drifting and ohter issues.
You have to listen hard to hear these things, but yes, when you do A/B tests you will notice.
Most newer pedals have stronger outputs and are clearer in sound, some of the newer pedals are digital, like some of the chorus ones, they will sound clearer as well.
Cut through all the hype and nonsense and just listen to the overal sound of the pedal. On the whole I personally find that I can live with that little sound-degration.
So nothing to worry about, but yes what you have noticed is true!! |
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Topic |
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Vintage tone degradation...
