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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2008 : 06:30:55
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From information gathered from other threads, it appears that the electrolytic capacitors in pedals may deteriorate from lack of use. If this is so, how often should a pedal be used to prevent this from happening? I have a few that sit on the shelf and I wonder if I should use those ones a little more often. |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 07:19:58
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According to Gerald Weber (amp guru) amps should be played at least twice a year. I suppose the same goes for pedals.
At home I always add a �new� pedal or two every time I play, this way I go through them all once in a while.
But you don�t have to play them, just give them some voltage/current, you need to put a jack in the input.
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 14:49:03
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I don't think there is an exact answer. Goran's suggestion makes sense, but I'll try to find time to do a little more research to see if there is a "definitive' answer - Dr. Bob probably has the answer in his back pocket right now 
For more info, have a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor#Electrical_behavior_of_electrolytics
As an aside - some techs will swap all the electrolytics in a circuit for new ones when doing a repair, whether or not they are related to the repair.
Laurie. |
Edited by - Laurie on 03/12/2008 15:05:03 |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 15:08:05
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Hi Guys
I know this isn't a direct answer to pedals 4 pv's question.
But I can tell you all right now, the only real way to see if an electro,
has aged , or is aging is with an ESR meter.
Forget trying to use a standard capacitance meter,
too many times, I have used a cap meter, only to be told it's a good cap, only to find, that it measures many 10's of ohms ESR.
Electro's typically have low ESR resistance, when new or still good.
I have repaired stuff that has been lying around here & at friends places, for many years once I bought mine
I have been doing this Engineering stuff for too long,
& it's only in the past 6-7 years, that I myself have been converted.
They are little used, and less known type of test meter,
but become almost indispensable, once you have used one.
And not too expensive, even for that "sometimes repair-er"
I really wish you guys would believe me & try one out.
Short of just changing every electro, when a repair comes into the lab.
It will make you a better analytical Tech.
Using & proving with Measurement, verses just speculation...
/rant mode off
Regards Dr. Bob  |
Edited by - Dr. Bob on 03/12/2008 15:51:15 |
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Konrad
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 15:56:27
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I believe you Dr.Bob! 
(I just have no idea what you're talking about!)  |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 16:12:16
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Hi Konrad & guys
Apologies ... I know it's very Techie, subject matter.
I'll post some links later tomorrow-today.
Its very late, I'll try to get at least a few hours sleep.
Regards Dr. Bob
PS meantime, please look-up (Bob Parker ESR Meter) on the old Google.
He is from Sydney Australia, & designed the one I use, back in 1996.
He has since re-licensed it to an American company (amdex??)
& one in Portugal. links are on his site, or just wait till later.
Use Google.com.au if you don't get hits in your country.
IN the UK it's sold as "The Capacitor Genie"
Regards Again Dr. B |
Edited by - Dr. Bob on 03/12/2008 16:13:29 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 18:43:22
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I'm a convert!! Really I am!! YES... I'll buy an ESR meter 
I just don't know the answer to pedals4pv's original question - how often do electrolytics need to be energised to stop them deteriorating? It's a hell of a good question...
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ChristoMephisto
Platinum Member
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 22:16:04
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Not quite sure either but soon I'm guessing since some pedals are getting close to 20-30 years old |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 02:18:15
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Doing some research I did find the following quotes:
"Capacitors can generally withstand storage in excess of three years at less than 40�C without deterioration"
"when stored under standard atmospheric
conditions (�IEC 68-1, clause 5.3.1�) for the following
periods of time:
3 years for non-solid 85 �C types
4 years for non-solid 105 �C types
10 years for non-solid 125 �C types
20 years for solid types.
After these periods, the leakage current for acceptance
test shall not exceed twice the specified IL5 requirement"
It appears possible that 3 years without use might make them "twice as bad".
While there is nothing definitive I could find, I'm thinking I'd want to turn my stuff on and run it for a while at least once a year... |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 08:00:15
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I have a friend that have lots of amps from the 50�s and 60�s, he haven�t changed electrolytes on them. He just plays them regularly, and the amps sound good. I have told him to do it but he would not listen�.
This is not something I recommend, but this tells us that electrolytes can hold together for a very long time.
In tube amps you risk tubes and output transformer by not changing electrolytes, and the sound would be gradually less good.
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 08:11:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Goran
According to Gerald Weber (amp guru) amps should be played at least twice a year. I suppose the same goes for pedals.
At home I always add a �new� pedal or two every time I play, this way I go through them all once in a while.
But you don�t have to play them, just give them some voltage/current, you need to put a jack in the input.
I like to change pedals all the time to, dependent on my mood. I am glad that I asked this question, because I forgot all about my old amp, the PV Renown 212. I fired her up today, and for some strange reason, it sounds way better than it did during the period that I was trying to justify the purchace of the tube amp. Don't get me wrong I like the Classic 30 much better. But I don't want to see the old amp deteriorate for lack of use, or any of my pedals for that matter, so I will make it a point to use this stuff more.(even the Dyna Drive) |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 19:09:36
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| Can't I just use my 1000V Megohmmeter? If they survive they are OK, if they don't they go BANG! |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 00:11:26
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"BOOM"
Muhahahahah!!
(sorry... having one of "those" days ) |
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Topic |
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Electrolytic Capacitor Aging
