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TheStratGuy
Copper Member
France
4 Posts |
 Posted - 10/05/2005 : 22:47:07
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| I would like to know if there is something like a table from which one could read for instance "such model, made in Japan, serial numbers 1995xx to 2186yy = built in 19zz"? I recently bought an old DF-2 and I'd be curious to know when it was built... |
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pawnshop_trash
Gold Member
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2005 : 05:03:49
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so would I, my friend... so would I.
the DF-2 was made from 1984-1994, with MIT and MIJ variants. it seems reasonable that all pre-lawsuit DF-2s (ones that read "Super Distortion and Feedbacker") came out in 1984 or 1985, and all MIJ DF-2s would likely be 1984-1987 or up to 1989? (when did production start to shift from Japan to Taiwan, bossarea?)
but according to The Boss Book, there *is* a way to discern month and year of manufacture from serial no., but Boss/Roland considers it a trade secret. I dunno what kind of legalities that would entail if we at the bossarea forum tried to pool our data and crack the code, but I'd be willing to help.
for those who have pedals they bought new, we can try to correlate serial no. with purchase date. among MIT pedals, my BF-2 (SN DHXXXXX) was bought in Fall 1995, and my two modded SD-1s (both SN OPXXXXX) were bought new and then modded in 2002. my modded DS-1 (SN MRXXXXX) was apparently bought new and modded in late 2003 or early 2004.
for those with used pedals, we might be able to correlate the date that lesser-production pedals were made by their SN. the DSD-2 was made from 4/85 to 9/86, and mine has a sticker stamped with SN 562600. the PW-2 was only in production for 9 months (source: the Boss book), starting in 1996, and mine has a SN of AJXXXXX. likewise, my XT-2 (in production for 1 year 9 months starting in 1996) has a SN of AJXXXXX, so AJXXXXX is probably 1996 or early 1997.
I'm not sure what to make of the DSD-2 SN (the two trailing zeroes make me wonder if it's just a batch number), but for the MIT pedals we have:
DHXXXXX is probably 1995
AJXXXXX is probably 1996 or early 1997
OPXXXXX is probably 2002
MRXXXXX is probably late 2003/early 2004
of course all of the listed years could be off by a year. and looking at the SN of my other MIT pedals and the dates they were introduced/sold/discontinued, there's a rough correlation between the second letter and year of manufacture (with _AXXXXX = 1988, _BXXXXX = 1989, and so on, assuming the letters proceeded in alphabetical order and that they didn't skip a letter). what are the first two letters of the SN of any Boss pedal bought new in 2005? (is the second letter "R"?)
of course, there's not enough data here to conclude any signficance. so please contribute your info if you can! |
Edited by - pawnshop_trash on 10/06/2005 05:19:29 |
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TheStratGuy
Copper Member
France
4 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2005 : 11:47:33
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I see... a "Rule of Four"-type riddle to solve in a way!  Actually I really don't see what kind of interest they at Roland/Boss seem to have in keeping that a secret, but if there REALLY is a key I guess that all together we may end up with enough clues to come close to the solution of it... By the way my DF-2 is an MIJ version and its SN is 789900... according to someone from Roland UK (I just got their answer to the mail I sent them last week, Roland France still didn't reply at all... ), even they seem to have little clue about the date it was built, apart from the fact that according to them it was built "before 1988" which apparently leaves me with a reduced 1984-1988 span... By the way, are we even sure that serial numbers depend only on the date the pedal was built or does the model considered play a role in it? I mean, would for instance a DS-1 and a CE-3 built on the same day in the same factory have an identical (or at least related) SN or not? Plus, I don't think that only the two front letters are relevant to determine the date of production, that would be too easy and certainly someone would have deciphered it long before... Who knows, maybe only the two last digits matter? or the three in the middle? I think we should create something like a database which would list the models, origins (MIJ or MIT), complete SN and what little we may know about the approximate date it was built, even though I'm pretty sure the code is different for each different kind of SN (e.g. 4-digits don't use the same code as nowadays' 2-letters-&-5-digits)(I put my infos above in bold letters, in case someone wants to use it to crack the 6-digits code).
By the way, does anyone here know between which and which year each type of SN was used? Which year was the first Boss product with a SN released? would be a good start I guess... |
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pawnshop_trash
Gold Member
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2005 : 15:21:21
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collectively, I like our chances to solve this serial riddle! 
regarding the old-style paper-stamped SN's seen on MIJ pedals, you're right, they may be pedal specific rather than factory specific. previous speculation suggested they may be batch numbers, since many of the older pedals end in double zeroes, so they may be pedal-specific batch numbers as well.
regarding the types of SN used, they don't have specific years with each type, but "the Boss book" is a good source of info describing different variations in parts, labels etc. over the years. I'm not endorsing one retailer over any other, but here's the description from amazon.fr:
http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/063404480X/
this book is highly recommended to any Boss enthusiast. |
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walrus121
Silver Member
USA
187 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2005 : 17:22:00
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| Gibson has gone to great efforts to research the dating of their serial numbers and provide new scheme that is easy to discern the exact day that the guitar was made. This makes it easy to appraise a guitar, and Gibson knows this, and they want it that way because having high-priced vintage guitars makes their new products look better and sell for more when Gibson ensures people that they are building to the highest quality. Roland is a Japanese company, and their philosophy is of progress and innovation, never looking back. They don't care about the vintage market, they want to sell new pedals and they are under the impression that they are making a better product by making it for less money and gaining higher profits. However, they are always trying to convince people that they are making newer better products all of the time. While this may be the case for their synthesizers, I don't think that it is true of most of their pedals, particularly when they switched from digital to analog chorus in the CE-5 without telling anybody (new model number should have definitely been issued for that one). They think that by re-releasing old designs that their new designs will appear to be worth less (and worthless). They don't want to make their new designs look bad by having reissues on the market. They could do what Ibanez is doing though and rereleasing their old pedals with crappier chips in them, but that is just ridiculous |
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boss freak
Gold Member
USA
663 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2005 : 17:27:26
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| I don't want to seem rude, but the subject of dating Boss pedals by serial number has been covered in several other threads. Looking through older threads before starting a new topic could provide you with a lot of information on this and other topics. |
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pawnshop_trash
Gold Member
USA
603 Posts |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 10:35:43
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| Yes, we never really got to the bottom of this and it will probably take a while until we do. About a year ago I listed up a lot of serial numbers from different pedals where I knew the purchase date. I couldn't find any correlation between any part of the number and the year. It would probably be too easy to crack the code if there was a correlation. The build month is also encoded somehow so cracking the code will probably be quite difficult. |
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BOSSguy
Copper Member
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2005 : 05:25:41
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here's my old s/n's
don't know if we can figure anything from this
BF-2 066500 Black Label and Controls MIJ early 80s
NF-1 191500 Black Label Small Controls MIJ early 80s manual says 82
DD-2 393300 Blue Label Blue Controls MIJ early 80s purchased in 83
TW-1 675800 Black Label Small Controls MIJ mid 80s manual says 86
OD-2 Z963853 Black Label Yellow Controls MIT late 80s
CH-1 ZA02419 Blue Label White Controls MIT late 80s manual says 88
I can get somewhat an idea of the dating from this
BTW: the BF-2 and NF-1 looks to be an early s/n
also DD-2 very early as well
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Edited by - BOSSguy on 10/12/2005 05:37:17 |
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Sunburst
Silver Member
427 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2005 : 22:13:29
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I have taken a closer look at some MIJ pedals. 1980�s seems to use six digit serialnumbers. One thing I have noticed, that seems interesting is that the first digit might, just might be the year of manufacture.
For example...my DC-2 serial is 701700 with blue label, and they stopped making DC-2 in 1989 so it could be made in 1987. My DC-3 serial is 949927 also a blue label, and might be made in 1989. My HM-2 serial is 619400 with black label, and could have been made in 1986. The TW-1 I have with serial 079800 could very likely been made in 1980. The old box and the early type screw knobs make that likely.
Seems like from the 90�s there are the two letter and five digit serial, but perhaps the serialnumbers from the 80�s can be deciphered from the first number in the serialnumber, telling what year it was made?
Im just speculating here, but could it be that simple...? 
TheStratGuy, telling about his DF-2 MIJ with serial 789900, and knowing it was made between 1984-1988 would tell that it might have been made in 1987...
For example, vintage japanese guitars such as Ibanez which I used to collect some years back had serialnumbers such as C79XXXX, where the first letter was the month of production, C being March, D being April and so on. The next two digits was the year of manufacture, 79 being 1979, and so on. This went on up until 1987 when they changed their system.
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pawnshop_trash
Gold Member
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2005 : 23:35:44
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Sunburst, you might be on to something there regarding 1980s MIJ Boss pedals with six-digit serial numbers. I just checked the SN of all of my such pedals:
CE-2 5xxxxx green label (made 1979-1986)
DC-3 9xxxxx blue label (made 1988-1993)
DF-2 9xxxxx black label (made 1984-1994; labeled "Super Feedbacker..")
DSD-2 5xxxxx blue label (made 1985-1986)
HF-2 6xxxxx green label (made 1985-1995)
HM-2 3xxxxx black label (made 1983-1991)
OD-2 7xxxxx black label (made 1985-1994)
PH-1r 2xxxxx black label (made 1980-1985)
PS-2 8xxxxx blue label (made 1987-1994)
RV-2 8xxxxx dark grey label (made 1987-1990)
SD-1 (SN illegible) black label
if the first digit is the year (e.g., 2xxxxx = 1982), that would fit all of my pedals, even the DSD-2 with its narrow production window. the last two digits were zero for all serial numbers except the 8xxxxx and 9xxxxx ones.
however, we also know that Boss celebrated 5 million units sold from 1976-1988, so the only way the above numbering system could work is if they were batch numbers instead of individual serial numbers. (if the first digit is year and the last two digits were zeroes until the late '80s, then that means only 999 unique six-digit serial numbers per year until the use of numbers that end in double-zero was ended.)
in addition, this scheme doesn't address the ink-stamped 4-digit serial numbers from 1976-1980, which almost certainly have to be batch numbers.
still, for the 6-digit and the 2-letter/5-digit serial numbers, it looks like we have some plausible date/code relationships. (edit -- these two serial number schemes almost certainly overlapped during 1988-1989... my MIJ MZ-2 has a two-letter/five digit SN.)
** minor typo corrected -- the serial number of my MIJ HF-2 (SN 6xxxxx) ends with two zeroes.... |
Edited by - pawnshop_trash on 10/15/2005 07:02:12 |
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Sunburst
Silver Member
427 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2005 : 23:49:23
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I only have focused my research on the 6 digit serialnumbers, and so far the first digit seems that it might indicate the year of manufacture for a specific pedal. Like you have seen on yours.
This is just a theory for now, since only a handful of pedals have been checked for the first digit correlation to plausible year of manufacture. It would be interesting to see what the other forum members with 6 digit serial pedals contribute to this theory on pedals made during the 1980�s.
We need to try and find that black sheep... |
Edited by - Sunburst on 10/14/2005 23:50:35 |
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Sunburst
Silver Member
427 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2005 : 00:07:59
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quote:
Originally posted by pawnshop_trash
(one last edit -- these two serial number schemes almost certainly overlapped during 1988-1989... my MIJ MZ-2 has a two-letter/five digit SN.)
Yes, during the transitionperiod it will be difficult to identify a specific year because of the overlapping. It will be interesting to evaluate serialnumbers on the other owners of DC-3, MZ-2 and other pedals which was made during the overlapping period to decipher the 6D-SN mystery further.
And furthermore, to see when the two-letter-5-digit system finally took over. DC-2 for example was made until 1989, so it will be interesting to see if that one shows up with the later TL5D system... |
Edited by - Sunburst on 10/15/2005 00:26:28 |
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dm-2
Bronze Member
Ireland
81 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2005 : 00:40:32
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Well, I think you could be on to something here.
The first digits of my serial numbers are as follows:
DD-2: 4 = 1984
DC-3: 8 = 1988
However, bear these two points in mind:
1. My DM-2 starts with 0, indicating 1980 but by dating the IC, we worked out that it was made sometime after May 1981.
2. My CS-2 starts with 9, indicating 1989, but production stopped in 1986. (I believe my particular CS-2 to have been made closer to 1981)
Having said that, there was obviuosly a differnt code used for the 4 digit serial numbers, let's call it Type I, and the two aforementioned pedals could be examples of ink stamped pedals using the Type I code before they switched to the newer code, let's call it Type II. Type III then would be the AAxxxxx code. |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2005 : 01:03:06
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The theory about the first digit indicating year may have some bearing on reality. For the most part it looks right. The only anomaly I've found is my CS-2 that has a number starting with 9 but we already know about some errors in the production years. Up until around 7xxxxx they all seem to end with 00. The numbers starting with 8 and 9 are all full 6 digit.
Here's the list of my 6 digit numbers:
TW-1 162400
CE-2 164900
VB-2 204100
DM-2 232300
PSM-5 285300
HM-2 441300
DF-2 529300
GE-7 550100
NF-1 568500
OD-2 833468
DD-3 861653
DC-2 876438
MZ-2 878696
CE-3 884463 (Taiwan)
CS-2 902757
DC-3 906154
LM-2 920425
I have 2 pedals with rather interesting numbering. My early Taiwan OC-2 has a 2 letter 5 digit number on a sticker inside the battery compartment. The sticker is the same type that is used for the 6 digit numbers.
My DS-2 has a yellow sticker with a 2 letter, 5 digit number below the thumb screw. The same sticker is also on the box. |
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BOSSguy
Copper Member
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2005 : 04:12:02
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wow so is my BF-2 the oldest pedal here ?
BF-2 066500 its an oldie, but much loved
I got this Flanger to go with my MXR Phase 90
so I could try to play Van Halen and sound cool
So is my NF-1 an oldie
I still have the box and manual
The box has a Black Stamp on the outside "EXP"
NF-1 191500 |
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Topic |
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How to date a Boss pedal from its serial number?
