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azimuth
Copper Member
Canada
26 Posts |
 Posted - 03/24/2009 : 01:15:36
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I've had an NS-2 for a while and I've been using the loop in it as described in the manual with one major difference that appears to be common from scouring the web.
I've been using it like this:
Guitar -> TU-2 -> NS2-IN
NS2-SND -> various pedals (not DD-3) -> AMP-IN
AMP-FX-SEND -> NS2-RTN
NS2-OUT -> DD-3 -> AMP-FX-RTN
This way the amp's pre-amp is also in the NS-2's loop.
I've also read that many people disregard the loop and simply use it inline with their pedal chain. So this has me thinking...
Since the NS-2 is basically a noise gate (muting on lack of signal on the IN jack), what would be the benefit of using the loop instead of using it (straight through) as the first pedal in the chain?
Anyone? |
Edited by - azimuth on 03/24/2009 02:56:58 |
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zerksies
Double Platinum Member
USA
3406 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 02:00:32
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| i use it first then the rest of my pedals. My pedals are not noisy but my guitar is so i use it there |
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Ollie
Gold Member
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 19:45:58
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*A question this thread raised*
I have a NS-2 ( no manual, rather confusing) & I have my chain as it is, but i have the send/return working on just the MD-2. I would like my OD-3 and Cs-3 and V-wah noise suppressed too, but I havnt got a long enough patch lead. Can you use the FX loop to counter this? Get all the pedals suppressed?
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rhcp_1005
Silver Member
United Kingdom
307 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 19:57:14
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Hi Ollie,
Using the NS-2 with just the IN/OUT jacks means anything up to the NS-2 will be affected by the suppressor and everyting after it won't. So you can put the NS-2 after the V-Wah, CS-3, OD-3 and MD-2 but before the rest of your pedals.
Hope this helps. |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2009 : 02:49:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ollie
*A question this thread raised*
I have a NS-2 ( no manual, rather confusing) & I have my chain as it is, but i have the send/return working on just the MD-2. I would like my OD-3 and Cs-3 and V-wah noise suppressed too, but I havnt got a long enough patch lead. Can you use the FX loop to counter this? Get all the pedals suppressed?
Hi ollie you can find the manual here;
http://backstage.rolandus.com/product_manuals/?group=5 |
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azimuth
Copper Member
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2009 : 03:06:33
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What I would like to understand in particular is the difference between having an effect pedal *IN* the NS-2 loop vs having the same pedal AFTER the NS-2 "OUT" jack. I wish the manual explained this. Maybe the whole "loop" business is a marketing gimmick or just gives more options for wiring up a pedalboard.
edit: Initially I said "BEFORE the NS-2 IN jack"... I should have said "AFTER the NS-2 OUT jack" |
Edited by - azimuth on 03/28/2009 14:14:14 |
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visserman
Platinum Member
1072 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2009 : 14:42:49
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I understand your point clearly as I have often thought about this as well.
It has been a while since I used the NS-2.
I think if you use the loop you can be more precise with the cut-off point for certain effects.
I believe in the past I have even used line-outs of amps into the loop and then the line-out straight into recorder.
All I can say is experiment, write down how you connect things, and listen to the variation in sound [noiselevels]
A misunderstood concept about noisesupressors is that some folks think it will clean up a pedal. Well, a noisesuppressor does not take away the noise, it only cuts off your signal at a certain point. |
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azimuth
Copper Member
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2009 : 15:49:03
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quote:
Originally posted by visserman
A misunderstood concept about noisesupressors is that some folks think it will clean up a pedal. Well, a noisesuppressor does not take away the noise, it only cuts off your signal at a certain point.
Exactly, and because the NS-2 is a "noise gate", it must gate on the INPUT jack - which is exactly why I don't understand the point of the loop. |
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visserman
Platinum Member
1072 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2009 : 15:36:11
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I will look into it as I'm sure the issue cannot be too complex.
Some folks have mentioned good points:
RHCP mentioned something which makes sense and you yourself mentioned the more wiringoptions.
Give me some time and I hope to have a clearer answer to this issue.
Cheers!! |
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visserman
Platinum Member
1072 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2009 : 15:15:46
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Okay Azimuth,
Here is what I suspect is the case:
NS-2 in loopfunction----it will cut out noise from pedals in loop, whatever is not in loop will not be affected by the noisegate BUT since the effect cuts out the signal at a particular point the unaffected signal will also be cut off, but in a slightly less dramatic way as when not using the loop.
Example: You have a noisy chorus. Connect chorus to loop, and the sound of the chorus will be cut off, straight guitarsignal should not be affected that much. But off course, the sound will fade away at some point, but the orginal, unaffected signal may remain stronger in this configuration.
When not using the loop: The whole signal-path will be cut off at same time.
Why using the loop?: To cut off noisy effects, or to create special-effects.
All of this I got from reading the manual and using common sense, have not tried many connecting-options but as you mentioned before, having a loop-device enhances the connecting-options whether one would need this for a noise-gate is debatable. |
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azimuth
Copper Member
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2009 : 15:28:33
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| I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but are you suggesting that if you had just 1 chorus pedal in the loop, the NS-2 functions differently when the chorus pedal is on vs off? I'm not sure what you mean by "straight guitar signal" in your example. |
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mindtwist07
Copper Member
Philippines
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 17:09:51
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*an added noob question about the NS-2*
I haven't used a NS-2 before though I plan to buy one because of the problem i have now and the problem is the large amount of hiss in my signal mostly came from my dirt pedals and the CS-3.When all 4 are engaged simultaneously the amount of hiss is unbearable.
so if i bought one.. this chain would be correct?
Guitar > Vol pedal > CS-3 > SD-1 > DS-1 > MT-2 > NS-2 > other pedals > amp
therefore it will suppress the noise or hiss coming from the CS-3 and the overdrive/distortion pedals and will clean the signal that will go through the other pedals.So my question is..If a high gain signal goes to the NS-2 does it effect the signal and lessen the gain of the dirt pedals? Please do correct me if Im wrong. thanks |
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azimuth
Copper Member
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 03:07:20
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Here's the thing. The NS-2 won't "clean" a signal (i.e. remove noise), but it will "gate" at a specified noise level when you're not playing. That is to say it will mute the signal when things are what you determine (with the knobs) to be quiet enough to be silent.
How I see it working is any pedals you put before the NS-2 INPUT jack will contribute to the noise levels that the NS-2 will monitor and gate on, and anay pedals you put after the NS-2 OUTPUT jack will not have any effect on how the NS-2 operates.
In addition, at this point I believe the NS-2 "loop" is nothing more than a chain that is also placed before the NS-2 noise processing circuitry (i.e. the same as putting pedals before the NS-2 INPUT jack). The "loop" jacks might help some people with their different pedalboard physical wiring options.
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visserman
Platinum Member
1072 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 15:53:49
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quote:
Originally posted by azimuth
I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but are you suggesting that if you had just 1 chorus pedal in the loop, the NS-2 functions differently when the chorus pedal is on vs off? I'm not sure what you mean by "straight guitar signal" in your example.
Yes, NS-2 functions differently when you use the loop. When using the loop, only the signal is cut out from whatever effect is connected to loop.
Staight signal is uneffected signal, dry signal, the sound which comes out of your guitar when you connect it straight to an amp.
Just a general note, which is not meant at you in particular really:
A lot of times people ask questions and raise issues and often these issues could be solved by understanding the general basic rules and terms of signalprocessing, guitars, amps and recorders. The net is full of very informative articles and there are very good books out there. Once you understand the basics you will find using that knowledge for the rest of your life, given the fact that you keep on playing and using your gear and keep thinking about what you are doing.
Another issue is, there are a lot of different tools/gear on the market and a lot of it may carry diffent names often it functions in the similar way. Often this is done to from a marketingpoint and to increase sales.
Coming back to the NS-2: One thing this pedal is good at is creating nice fade outs in your sound. Good for when you are using long notes in atmospheric situations. I would call this a "special-effect" use. Overal the pedal may be better for these applications rather than just cutting out noisy amps, guitars or pedals. |
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mindtwist07
Copper Member
Philippines
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 17:07:15
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quote:
Originally posted by azimuth
Here's the thing. The NS-2 won't "clean" a signal (i.e. remove noise), but it will "gate" at a specified noise level when you're not playing. That is to say it will mute the signal when things are what you determine (with the knobs) to be quiet enough to be silent.
How I see it working is any pedals you put before the NS-2 INPUT jack will contribute to the noise levels that the NS-2 will monitor and gate on, and anay pedals you put after the NS-2 OUTPUT jack will not have any effect on how the NS-2 operates.
In addition, at this point I believe the NS-2 "loop" is nothing more than a chain that is also placed before the NS-2 noise processing circuitry (i.e. the same as putting pedals before the NS-2 INPUT jack). The "loop" jacks might help some people with their different pedalboard physical wiring options.
I see..thanks for the help. |
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azimuth
Copper Member
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 18:07:36
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quote:
Originally posted by visserman
Yes, NS-2 functions differently when you use the loop. When using the loop, only the signal is cut out from whatever effect is connected to loop.
Staight signal is uneffected signal, dry signal, the sound which comes out of your guitar when you connect it straight to an amp.
I still don't understand what you mean.
Btw you're talking to a guy who took 4 years of EE (loooong time ago before I changed careers to Comp Sci).
Now I wish I still remembered enough to look at the NS-2 schem and figure out an answer to my question, but I don't.
The pedal is a noise gate, so it is monitoring what it "hears" which includes anything before the IN jack and anything in the LOOP. Nothing more, nothing less, right?
What I'm thinking is the guts of the thing simply operate as follows. If you could show me with a couple little illustrations what your interpretation is I'd appreciate it.
The following example assumes 1 EQ pedal before the NS-2 and 1 chorus pedal in the loop, nothing else. [[]] denotes the loop and (NOISE PROCESSING CIRCUITRY) is what listens and decides when to gate the signal.
GUITAR->EQ->[[CHORUS]]->(NOISE PROCESSING CIRCUITRY)->AMP
Now if BOTH pedals are before the NS-2 and the loop is empty, here's what I'm thinking it looks like:
GUITAR->EQ->CHORUS->[[]]->(NOISE PROCESSING CIRCUITRY)->AMP
And if both pedals are in the loop:
GUITAR->[[EQ->CHORUS]]->(NOISE PROCESSING CIRCUITRY)->AMP
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Topic |
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NS-2 - any benefit to using the loop?
