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Mansun
Gold Member
Spain
564 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2009 : 22:55:41
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I'm not looking for an amp right now, but could be in a very near future, depending on when and where I start playing gigs... I received an interesting offer in this LINE 6 SPIDER
http://outletmusical.blogspot.com/2009/05/amplificador-de-guitarra-line-6-spider.html
What do you think of it? I've read about line 6 in this forum, but I'd like to see if you know that brand. Thank you!
Oh, the price was down from 665� to 465�... |
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verivorax
Platinum Member
Canada
1185 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 23:15:18
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That's a Spider I - the first version from 2002ish. That price seems very high, but I don't know what going rate on the new spiders would be. Line6 is the most versatile of the modeling amp companies.. and they're used all over the world for gigs, but the spiders are a little under-powered sometimes (hence the newer Spider Valve series). If you want budget Line6, look at their oldest stuff - the AX2 or the Flextone series. They're a more robust and pro design, and you should be able to find them pretty cheap (maybe.... it might even be cheaper to have something shipped over, that Spider would be worth about MAX $350us, since its replacement (more power, etc) is only $500us right now!
What are you looking for in a giggable amp? Do you need high-gain sounds that you can't get from your pedals? |
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The_Doc
Gold Member
United Kingdom
509 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 23:35:50
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Hi Mansun - here's a short account of my experience of Line6 kit (I hope you don't mind the slight diversion away from tube amps kelmaur  ).
Not the same beast as the Spider but I have gigged with a Line6 Flextone III combo and it did the job. However, it was a 'corporate event' to a 100 or so people where I had the luxury of the events company micing it up and processing it through their desk and outboard. Maybe not your normal pub rock type gig as our sound was crystal clear because of the whole corporate events sound system set up. I needed lots of classic amp sounds for the covers set we did and that amp nailed it.
Where I've found it lacking is at balls out rock gigs where you really want to dig the pick in - at volume. I find it lacks the click and squeak (if you know what I mean  ) you get from a hot valve amp. So for our regular gigs I won't use it - it's valves all the way (a Marshall JVM 410C and Peavy Delta Blues in my case).
For pretty well all of my home studio work I use the Line6 POD X3 - amazing piece of kit - all the amp sims and stuff work for me in that context. An earlier POD XT featured in a last minute solo I did on our album (we ran out of studio time to set the amps up again so I used the POD) and it's a pretty convincing substitute: it made the final cut for the album. I like Line6 amp sims but if you are planning to use them live and at volume, I really advise you to try them (a lot) before you buy.
In respect to this forum though - my other go to modeller for studio work is my venerable BOSS GT-5 - still sounds excellent after all these years (even though it's starting to creak a bit like me). 
Hope that helps.
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Mansun
Gold Member
Spain
564 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2009 : 00:40:58
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@ verivorax
Well, I think I have enough gain with my Ibanez TS9DX and in a few months I'll own myself a Keeley DS-1, so that's not the problem, I think. The problem is I've never gigged before and my band is quite loud, so I'm thinking of getting something equally loud, volume-wise speaking, more than gain. Maybe 60w of a Marshall could be enough, I just don't have a clue.
@ the doc
I see you've got a lot of gear to your dispose, I wish I had that knowledge hehehe. I'm not into multieffects right now, as I've been attached to a zoom pedal for like 7 years and although I know it's not exactly the same thing as a GT-5 (pun intended), I'm burned of the whole thing.
Thanks to everyone and sorry if I'm spoiling a nice thread! |
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kelmaur
Gold Member
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2009 : 01:29:19
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(I hope you don't mind the slight diversion away from tube amps kelmaur ).
no..im not buying a Line6...i have one and bought it new little over a year ago and it sucks..it probably only has 50 hours on it (Line 6 Spider 3 120 watt w/2 10's along with the 400 presets
i just bought it because i REALLY NEEDED an amp at the time
but later found out that for the sound im after i NEED a tube amp
it is still in new condition as i have only played for the first few months after i bought it the rest of the time i have ben going straight into my computer
ill entertain trade offers
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Edited by - kelmaur on 05/21/2009 01:29:59 |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2009 : 17:16:53
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quote:
#1. all of the above
#2. Yes, maybe some, and probably.
#3. probably looking at a half stack (i think will be enough)
#4. is it possible to get something decent for under $1000?
are you sure you actually need class A tone? most amps/famous tones are class AB. i personally dislike class A tone, especially when using pedals with them (not a big fan of hearing diodes). most famous tones (both clean and dirty) were done with class AB.
$1000 is cake. I've only spent that once before on an amp (and it was $1075 for the amp i'd always wanted).
quote:
are there decent combo's out there that can compete with half stacks
yes, but often they are slightly different. most combos are open back which will give an inherently different feel to closed back stacks, but there are some closed back combos.
most high end combos are basically the head in combo form (with a couple of exceptions such as the 5150 where the combo is stripped down a bit in terms of power/features).
if you are working on a $1000 budget you have tons of options. if you go head/cab you basically have $300 for a used marshall 1960, 5150, etc. cab and $700 to sink into a head. combos give slightly more value as you'd have the whole $1000. your big decision on that budget is whether to buy 1 or 2 amps.
basically, tube amps are like this:
-great clean, non-existent or average to crappy distortion.
-great distortion, average to crappy clean (or non-existent).
i'm not going to delve into triode vs. pentode, but basically you have 2 flavors of distortion, compressed ultra high gain (think modern metal) or more open heavy crunch (think 70's/80's tube overdrive). a few amps have both sounds, but usually 1 is better than the other.
in terms of cleans, it's like this:
-warm, full clean (think super reverb, deluxe reverb, twin etc.)
-sterile super clean that is clean but doesn't have a lot of color/warmth to it (mesa, peavey, etc.)
-dirty clean that is more like a mild overdrive (jcm900, jcm800, laney aor, etc.)
i always put a good dirty amp ahead of a good clean amp, since you can always fake clean with volume roll backs, etc. and it's easier to clean up a dirty amp than it is to add nuttage to a clean amp.
at $1000 it's feasible to pick up 1 above average clean amp and 1 above average dirty amp, or you could sink more money into a higher value amp that specializes in 1 of the 2.
best value clean amps:
musicman HD/RD series (basically copies of the twin reverb circuit, available in 50, 65, 75, 100, 130, 150 watts and available as a head, 1x12, 2x10, 2x12, 1x15 combos and maybe even 4x10). $600 or less, often more like $375.
twin reverb... 85 watt 2x12. these used to be like $400 here, now they're more like $550-700.
dark horses:
peavey ranger. 130 watt 2x12. basically a 90's twin reverb copy with a few extra features. clean i'd give a B. dirty i'd give a B-. these are like $350.
fender super 60/112. 60 watts 1x12. basically an evil twin in 1x12 form. not a pinnacle of reliability but the clean is rock solid and plenty loud. $300-400. clean A-, dirty B-.
fender 75. 75 watts 1x12. early 80's model. solid construction and i believe it's point to point wired. $350-450.
dirty amps you basically have your pick. JCM900/600/2000 are all doable on your budget but i'd recommend avoiding jcm2000 DSL's and only going for TSL's if you decide to get one (the DSL's lack nuttage). 2x12 combos are doable for all 3 under $700, with the chance of finding a head for like $450 or combo for like $550.
peavey 5150's are solid in the $500-600 range for either a head or 2x12 combo. XXX's are quite versatile and while they have a sterile clean, it's a true clean and it has both the open jcm800 sounding distortion and the more compressed modern metal high gain distortion in a 3 channel amp. these are $350-600 for a head or combo.
mesa F-30/50/100. $500-700 for a head or combo. 2-channel. sterile clean, high gain modern metal distortion that dials back nicely to a super chunky OD.
dark horses:
peavey ultra. $250-400 for head or combo. 3-channel. basically the 5150's lil bro.
sovtek migs. $300-500 for head or combo. basically a single channel jcm800 that was made in russia.
laney pro tube aor. $200-400 for head or combo. 1-3 channel depending upon the model. passable clean, above average jcm800ish gain type. hard to find one that works really well and these are f'n heavy... like 100 lbs for a 2x12 combo.
if this is your first tube amp, any/all will be a significant upgrade over what you are used to hearing. even a valve king will smoke 99% of solid state amps and these are mega cheap used (i got a VK112 for $159 and saw a VK212 the other day for $229). |
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Pedalhead
Silver Member
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2009 : 08:25:54
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| '60s-'70s Traynor amps. Sounds like a plexi, cheap. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2009 : 11:05:10
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Hi kelmaur, Zen & Guys
quote:
Fender 75.
75 watts 1x12. early 80's model. solid construction and i believe it's point to point wired. $350-450.
I can personally vouch for these, I have one in my collection.
It's now my main amp.
They also came as a 15 inch combo, & as head configurations.
There were also 30,75 & 140 watt models.
Secretly designed by Paul Rivera; Designer of Rivera amps fame.
They were Fenders response to the Mesa Boogie Mark II & IIc
of that era, as they were loosing some market ground to Mesa Engineering.
Obscenely loud! -------- & sort of heavy.
And you can trust Zen
- he has better ears than my Oscilloscope, & Distortion Analyzer.
Regards Dr. Bob  |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2009 : 11:19:29
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| Hey zentropa... fantastic info! Going to copy that and put it in the archive |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2009 : 11:52:08
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The Musicman amps are also good that Zentropa mentioned..i have the HD130 combo and thaey a re a great clean amp if you use pedals to shape your sound... |
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zestystrat
Silver Member
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2009 : 16:06:29
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I had two Boogies both .50+. One was the head + half stack (sold it) and the other is a 1x12 combo.
I personally find the cleans to be way too brittle. I swapped out the tubes and threw in some GT's (6L6C's if my brain is working this morning) this ran the amp cold and it helped a little on the cleans.
In the end I wound up buying a 68 twin and it has been able to capture the sound in my head.
Just keep in mind that bigger isn't always better and that the PA of a club should do most of the heavy lifting, power wise.
The other kinds of lifting you'll have to do, keep that in mind when you have to lug a half stack to someone's house for a jam.
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 00:01:06
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i've owned over 100 amps hehe. about 50 of those were tube. i've only owned 3 amps that i kept for longer than 5 years.
1968 fender twin reverb (paid $425, sold due to change in playing style)
1987 marshall silver jubilee 2x12 combo (paid $1075, sold due to financial reasons)
1994 marshall jcm900 4102 2x12 combo... paid $700 this is the one i still have. not the best sounding amp i've ever owned but it's a rock and i can count on it and i can't get near what i've put into it.
amps that i was happiest with that that i somewhat regret selling:
1973 fender vibro champ. paid $150
1998 5150 2x12 combo. paid $380
1984 marshall jcm800 4010 1x12 combo. paid $425
1987 fender super 60 1x12 combo. paid $260
deals are definitely out there.
the other amps i currently own aside from my jcm900 are probably going to be getting sold soon due to financial reasons. jcm2000 DSL401 combo... not a huge fan of this but it's solid and i picked it up in a trade for some crap (tiny PA, drum machine, newbie guitar, etc.). the other is a peavey xxx efx40 1x12. i absolutely adore the crunch channel, but unfortunately this model is a 2.5 channel. footswitch goes from clean or crunch to ultra-gain and uses a push button to toggle from clean to crunch. the non-efx versions are true 3 channel operation. the super gain is above average but way too saturated for my tastes. the clean is so so but is a true clean.
i didn't mention any jcm800's or some of the weird marshall amps i like (such as the 6100's... those are my 2nd fav to the jubilees and run $800-1200) as i don't consider them high value purchases.
doubling/tripling the price doesn't double/triple the tone quality.
another sleeper i forgot to mention are the marshall artist series from the 1980's. these were hybrid amps (with tube power) and have models like the 3203, 4203, etc. that used to fly well under the radar and could be found in the $200-300 range. lately they're more like $400-600 but still a decent value at that range.
also, you can stumble across mesa mark ii/iii's combos used for ~$700 (heads are usually a bit more) but it's hard to find ones that are 100% functional (usually missing a knob or a broken eq slider, etc.).
quote:
I personally find the cleans to be way too brittle. I swapped out the tubes and threw in some GT's (6L6C's if my brain is working this morning) this ran the amp cold and it helped a little on the cleans.
/agree. i call it "hospital clean" in that it feels a bit sterile. it's on the opposite end of the spectrum from the "not really a clean because it's dirty" clean that a lot of the high gain amps.
the best advice i can give towards someone amp hunting is to keep your options open and don't key in on any 1 model or you'll end up overpaying. have an idea of what you want and an idea of what you would like to pay and seek out getting the most bang for your buck that is within an acceptable range of the tone you want.
getting 90% of the tone you desire for $400 is always superior to getting 100% of the tone you desire for $1500.
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Edited by - zentropa on 05/23/2009 00:03:47 |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 15:15:18
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Don't forget the 70's marshall bassheads like the superbass which can still be got a lot cheaper than the superlead and are more of less the same,i have one and it's a great amp,i picked it up for 120 euro.... ..also some of the Marshall PA heads from that era are great as well and often overlooked...... |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 23:28:25
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ah yes, now that you mention bass heads a few amps slipped my mind as well.
the fender bassman and bandmaster heads from the late 60's and early 70's are above average clean amps and can be picked up in the $400ish range. |
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Ollie
Gold Member
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 23:42:56
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| I'm thinking about getting a new amp - I don''t care for preset fx or even overdrive for that matter. Looking for a nice clean amp - The Fender Deville sounds very nice :) Anybody tried it? |
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Topic |
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Need help picking out an amp.......
