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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
 Posted - 03/13/2008 : 07:42:36
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Stinkfoot, can you teach a waveform newbie such as myself about distortion?
I'd like to learn a bit about generalities on characteristic waveforms. Like what some effects sound like & how their shapes indicate the frequencies we hear, etc. I've seen the shapes in The Boss Book which offers some clues on how things work. There was one thing I ran across (somewhere else) which showed a wave that had a spike just before it started back down again & referred to it as a "ringing".
The Zvex Machine is unlike any other effect & I was wondering if you could speak about distortion in general & the Zvex in particular as far as waveforms go.
http://media.zvex.com/FLASH/MACHINE/
"Machine is actually a dual frequency-tripler circuit that uses crossover distortion for the first time in any pedal, ever. It generates the distortion of the wave in the sloped part of the cycle, instead of the peaks and valleys like all other distorters and fuzzes. In other words, it distorts when your guitar string is in the middle of vibrating, while it's swinging, not as it's turning around."
I SO want an oscilloscope..
TIA  |
Edited by - DeFrag on 03/13/2008 07:44:47 |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 08:44:15
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Send Stinkfoot a remainder of your question, stinkfoot@stinkfoot.se , I have done that before.
I don�t think he follow this forum on a day to day basis.
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Edited by - Goran on 03/13/2008 08:48:20 |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 09:08:32
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| Tks mate |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 09:34:03
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One, not so obvious thing, thing about waveforms is that there is really no such thing as a square wave or a triangular wave. The only waves we have are sinus formed. Waves with other shapes are built up of sinus waves with different frequencies.
To really see how different distortion pedals are different we will need to run the output signal through a spectrum analyzer which would then pick out the different frequency components that makes up the waveform displayed in the Boss book. This is on my todo list if I ever find the time...
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 14:49:49
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quote:
Originally posted by bossarea
One, not so obvious thing, thing about waveforms is that there is really no such thing as a square wave or a triangular wave. The only waves we have are sinus formed. Waves with other shapes are built up of sinus waves with different frequencies.
To really see how different distortion pedals are different we will need to run the output signal through a spectrum analyzer which would then pick out the different frequency components that makes up the waveform displayed in the Boss book. This is on my todo list if I ever find the time...
Good point. |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 15:01:07
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You can use software like CoolEdit to look at the spectrum of a wave. The mathematical operation is called a "Fourier Transform". bossarea is correct - mathematically, any wave at all can be made by "the appropriate linear combination of pure sine waves".
If anyone is interested, I can create (or find) a little tutorial about the general shape-vs-sound of waves? It won't be guitar tone related (I don't profess to be anywhere near as experienced as someone like stinkfoot) but I do understand the generic maths behind waves...
Yeah... an oscilloscope is really worth it DeFrag. I'd recommend a Tektronix. I picked up a good old one on you-know-where for $100. I did try some of the PC based software ones that use the sound card as an input, but they just don't work - you need a much higher frequency response to really see what's going on.
Laurie.
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Edited by - Laurie on 03/13/2008 15:02:23 |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 20:04:03
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I've needed a scope forEVER & a Tek is what I'd go for. I'd actually like to have a new one but even though I fully expected they would grow cheap since the mid-80s with all the electronics advances, the Teks I saw were indeed slimmer but still hovering around $600+ for a decent one. I've thought about getting a PC input adapter & run a scope in hardware but haven't pulled the trigger on anything. You're probably right in grabbin' off eBay but I sure like new equipment & try to buy the right thing the 1st time.
I've got CoolEdit2K.
I'd love a tutorial, whip one up if you have time & tks |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 03:59:44
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Here is a nerdy link:
http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Waveform.html
Defrag: the new Tektronix scopes are awesome, but yes, <sigh> no change out of $600. I figured if i ever have any trouble with my $100 ebay special (it's a Tektronix 2215A) I'll just chuck it away and think about a $600 new one then |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 04:34:46
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Just had a look at http://media.zvex.com/FLASH/MACHINE/
When they talk about crossover distortion, they are talking about distortion in this part of the waveform:
"It generates the distortion of the wave in the sloped part of the cycle, instead of the peaks and valleys like all other distorters and fuzzes". Sho'nuff looks like that's what they are doing by adding cross-over distortion. And that probably adds some frequency components that aren't there in a "normal" distortion pedal - every one I've seen so far uses overdriven amplification/clipping/choppers.
Also looks like Wikipedia has some good general info on distortion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distortion_%28guitar%29
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 05:14:01
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| Did you play the Machine (Flash) demo to hear what it sounds like? |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 13:55:28
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| Yep, gave it a play. Not really my cup of tea, but it does seem to cut through nicely. |
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stinkfoot
Silver Member
Sweden
181 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 15:49:02
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quote:
Originally posted by DeFrag
Stinkfoot, can you teach a waveform newbie such as myself about distortion?
Not really... I don't know too much about that stuff. I know the general overall ideas, of course, how hard vs soft clipping looks when applied to a sine wave. I've never felt the need to venture further than that into the depths of waveform technology 
/Andreas |
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Stinkfoot please elaborate on waveforms
