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gibbyage
Copper Member
USA
6 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2008 : 10:19:52
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So I'm expanding my pedal board (all boss pedals). So far in the loop is Phaser, Flanger, Tremolo, and Line 6 delay. In the front of the amp I have a tuner, noise supressor, and rc-2 loop.
I'm having trouble with some of the effects bleeding through the loop. I've adjusted the back knob on my Stiletto Duece II but theres no great way to set it. The Line 6 also becomes too distorted when on channel 2.
Have any of you found that some of these effects just work better in the front of the amp? Or have any suggestions on placement of the knob on the back of the amp. Or a different way to place the pedals in the loop.
Thanks. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 10:43:10
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Hi gibbyage
Welcome to the forum from Australia.
Regards Dr. Bob |
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gibbyage
Copper Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 11:34:40
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| Thanks for the welcoming. |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 18:21:52
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Hi gibbyage!
I think I've read that all your FX (Phaser, Flanger, Tremolo, and Line 6 delay) are in the FX loop of the amp? I have a Marshall JCM600 and the Boss effects just don't work in the FX loop. For some reason they sound "thin and weak". Same effect in front of the amp is great.
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 18:38:39
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Hi gibbyage
Line 6 warns you not to place the Dl4 into the effects loop of any amp.
It's in the manual.
And I have read it, on their Support  site a few times.
(sorry I couldn't resist the ROTHL emoticon).
Spend some time there & you will know what I mean.
But I guess the Line6 support guys, are forced to tow the company line.
And they do so, to an embarrassing extreme.
Apologies if anyone here is a Line6 support tech.
I believe they claim that it can permanently damage the DL4.
Whether this is really true not, the input stage of the DL4, is only designed for lower level guitar type signals.
Perhaps it damages the Input stage of the OpAmp, or the really small SMD/SMT caps & resistors.
If it's true & it does, it was a poorly thought out design.
gibbyage
I have a DL4 that I repaired & serviced, but I have never tried it in an effects loop, after reading all the problems that this unit suffers from.
If it is easily damaged by the higher levels of the send, on your amp, then it should be printed on the unit,
In 12 foot high letters, not in 12 point text on page 28,355 chapter 19 of some Pilots manual.
BTW, Nice rig on your myspace page.
Regards Dr. Bob
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Edited by - Dr. Bob on 07/05/2008 18:40:30 |
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gibbyage
Copper Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 22:23:28
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I noticed that the boss pedals sound thin in the loop but a lot of people preach the "effects in loop" so I thought I would give it a go.
I mustve skipped over the dont put the DL4 in the loop. But thanks for pointing that out.
Any other opinions on the boss pedals in the loop and settings of the knob on the back of the amp. |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 23:16:49
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Welcome to the forum... ..personally i think series is the way to go with effect loops especially modulation effects like chorus, flanger,etc....my amps are so old that everything goes in the front end and i use an dual overdrive as my crunch/lead channels but i do loop a old dynacord rack unit through a Pod XT pro in a stereo effects loop set to series and it works great..wasn't so good when set to parallel but line 6 recommend that the loop be set to series with any modulation effects,their reasoning is that in parallel there is some of the 'dry' signal stiil present and it can cause out of phase problems with chorus,flanger,tremolo etc..the 'thin sound' you and Laurie referred to sounds like a out of phase problem,it can also happen when running two amps in stereo.......i also messed around with effects loop on a marshall combo i use rehearsing with the rack in the amps loop and it worked great but it has a switch for +4 and -10db to compensate for either rack units or pedals plus i wasn't switching the loop on and off which i assume you are with the mesa'a footswitch..?and i set the loops knob to 100% full..i.e series.......i have read that some loops are only designed for rack effects...ie. line6 in the XT pro's instructions state this and tell you to put any pedals in the front input like a regular amp so maybe a quick email or check out Mesa's webpage might throw some more light on this problem but why the sound is bleeding through is a mystery... ....it's a bummer about the delay pedal... i know people using the amps lead channel the mod/echo effects always sound better in the loop especially the delay...as far as i know if you turn the loops send/return knob up full your setting it to series so it might be worth a go..i didn't know about the Line 6 delay not been able to take the line signal..i agree with the Doc if it's true it's very bad design.. .all i could say is to maybe try a rack unit or different delay pedal..line 6 used to make an rack version of the floor based one....
I'm away on hols for the next 2 weeks so i probably mightn't be around best of luck and let us know if you solve the problem.... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 07/05/2008 23:21:44 |
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gibbyage
Copper Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 06:54:09
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Theres no footswitch for the mesa stiletto line to switch on/off the loop. Any one have experience with a Stiletto head? Or the older two channel dual rectifiers that are also serial?
I re read the line 6 manual and still cant find where it says it shouldnt go in the loop. I know they changed the model a couple of years ago since the electrical board was right underneath where you stomp and it was causing problems. Maybe the older manuals say it doesnt belong in the loop. |
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jack
Platinum Member
USA
1418 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 06:58:45
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I've never had luck with FX loops, and just run everything up front.
To me loop = poop |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 07:15:49
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effects i run in the loop (if using them):
flanger
chorus
delay
tremolo
reverb
effects i run in front:
wahs
phasers
compressors
i also generally run the amp's distortion channel as my distortion.
i've found the quality of effects loops varies a ton from manufacturer to manufacturer.
e.g. peavey has better effects loops than marshall.
the two ideas with the loop are:
1. you get the "proper" order of effects with the amp's distortion channel.
2. you have the least inline between your guitar and the amp to reduce signal degredation. |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 07:40:51
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Welcome to Bossara gibbyage! 
Admittedly, I've not tried my FX loop with my Mesa. I think modulation effects will sound better there (I hear never put distortion or ODs), I'm kind of geared toward running all up front. |
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verivorax
Platinum Member
Canada
1185 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 08:45:28
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gibbyage: it may even be your Stiletto. I have a friend whose DualRec was bleeding the fx and had to be repaired - the mesa tech knew the problem very well. If the amp is still under waranty, it may be covered. Mesa may also be able to factory mod an FX switch, but as the Stiletto's footswitch takes just TRS 1/4" it might open up a can of worms.
I love Mesa, but I hate the parallel loops. I only had luck injecting a bit of verb into my otherwise dry Subway Rocket.
External loopers, even simple oneslike the Radial bigshot EFX , are preferable to an internal loop, in my eyes/ears |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 08:57:45
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I put my stereo pedals in the effects loop of my Peavey classic 30 tube amp, and send the stereo signal a solidstate amp. The tube amp acts like a big tube distortion pedal for the solidstate amp. I also put a volume pedal, at the end of the loops pedal chain, on the effects return side. In mono this allows me to turn up the amps volume so the el84's distort, but I can still control the volume output with the pedal. In stereo I can pan the volume from amp to amp, and still get some of the overdriven el84 effect. It is a low impedance volume pedal, so it works better with some pedals in the circuit to supply some impedance. I use my DD-5, a stereo chorus(CH-1 or CE-3),and my RV-3 in the effects loop with two A/B switches ganged together to select which stereo signal from which pedal to send to the solidstate amp.
The worst part about using the effects loop is the cables are prone to picking up electrical noise and interferance, cheap cables will not work with any satifaction in the effects loop. You don't need the 100 dollar jobs, but you do need at least a pro quality set of cables. |
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gibbyage
Copper Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 08:59:54
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Yeah I had problems when I had the newer three channel dual rectifier and it was parallel. I'm just gonna have to set some time aside and mess with each effect individually. Only effect I havent had trouble with bleeding through the loop is the tromolo and dl4. The other two start bleeding through right when I stomp on it.
Thanks for the help so far. This board is a lot more helpful then others for sure. |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 21:29:20
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| Thanks for the heads up about Mesa amps. I thought of buying one but now I am glad that I didn't. |
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gibbyage
Copper Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 21:41:51
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quote:
Originally posted by pedals 4 pv
Thanks for the heads up about Mesa amps. I thought of buying one but now I am glad that I didn't.
Theres no problems with mesa heads. It's all in how you set it. I just havent had the patience to sit down and set each pedal individually. |
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Topic |
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Loop or Front?
