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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
 Posted - 07/16/2008 : 10:37:20
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well...
i've bought and sold a ton of boss pedals over the past few months and have had a chance to sample nearly everything out there and/or knew them from memory. i've been able to compile my "best of" lists for most categories for both tube and solid state (or tube w/ solid state rectifier) amps, although that distinction is only really important for distortion pedals.
here's my "best of" list. a few pedals seem to fall into crossover distinction. i'm listing all that i've considered as candidates. *'s indicate if i sampled more than 1 with the # of stars indicating how many i've had over the past few years. i'm curious as to what others have come up with.
yes, i know my lists are biased based upon what i've owned :P i haven't had a DC-2 or MIJ HF-2 in about 15 years so i don't count that as it wasn't played with any of my current gear.
mild to moderate overdrive candidates:
OD-1**, MIJ OD-2 turbo off, MIT OD-2 turbo off, OD-3, MIJ SD-1****, MIT SD-1******, SD-2 crunch, BD-2.
Tube: OD-1 (any)
Solid State: Tie, OD-1 w/ JRC4558DD and MIJ SD-1.
heavy overdrive candidates:
MIJ OD-2 turbo on, MIT OD-2 turbo on, SD-2 lead, PW-2, HM-2, OS-2.
Tube: MIJ OD-2 turbo on
Solid State: SD-2 lead
moderate distortion candidates:
MIJ DS-1***, MIT DS-1*****, MIJ DS-2 turbo off, MIT DS-2 turbo off, OS-2.
Tube: MIJ DS-2
Solid State: OS-2
heavy distortion candidates:
MIJ HM-2**, MIT HM-2*, HM-3, MT-2****, ML-2**, MIJ DS-2 turbo on, MIT DS-2 turbo on, MD-2, XT-2, FZ-2, FZ-3, FZ-5.
Tube: HM-2
Solid State: ML-2
Most Versatile, if I could only pick 1 it would be:
1. OS-2
2. SD-2
3. MIJ DS-1
If I could only pick 3 distortion pedals to have forever and needed to do it all:
1. MIJ DS-1
2. MIJ SD-1
3. MIJ HM-2
Most Unique:
1. XT-2
2. OS-2
3. BD-2
Pedals I don't see much use for... in that something else seems to do it better:
1. DS-2
2. FZ-5
3. BD-2 (with the exception of vintage fender and musicman tube amps)
4. PW-2
5. MD-2
other effects:
best chorus candidates:
MIJ CE-2*****, MIT CE-2**, MIJ CE-3**, MIT CE-3, Analog CE-5****, Digital CE-5, Analog CH-1**, Digital CH-1.
winner: MIJ CE-2
best phaser candidates:
PH-1, PH-1r, MIJ PH-2, MIT PH-2**, PH-3
winner: PH-1
best flanger candidates:
MIJ BF-2***, MIT BF-2**, BF-3, MIT HF-2
winner: MIJ BF-2 (early 80's)
best tremolo candidates:
TR-2***, PN-2
winner: none. these are both crappy imo.
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 12:22:38
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sp-1
Platinum Member
Germany
1454 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 13:35:40
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kittenface
Bronze Member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 19:26:48
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where is the 'best delay' list?
BTW - the HF-2 kills |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 19:59:16
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not all HF-2's kill, just as most BF-2's don't kill.
the MIT HF-2 i played recently sounded really thin.
the only BF-2 i've found to be better than other manufacturer's flangers are really old BF-2's. like 1980-81 that have the older style black label w/ the "use a coin" instructions. i picked one of these up for a buddy a couple of weeks ago and it's sick. my 2 MIJ BF-2's i own now are from 85 and 89 and not nearly as good.
the MIJ HF-2 that i had was solid, but it's not recent enough in memory to make a direct comparison. i remember liking it but replaced it with an 83 ibanez FL9 when i had it.
if i was going off memory, i would say the MIJ HF-2 is better than the 85/89 MIJ BF-2's i have, but the '81 BF-2 sounded better than the MIJ HF-2.
as for delays, i don't really use much delay, and i didn't really think it was fair to compare analog to digital and while i could have done a full digital, i haven't spent enough time with stuff like the PS-2 and DSD's to give em a fair shake. if i had to pick a delay, it would be analog. if i had to pick a digi, it would probably be an older DD-3 or DD-2.
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pawnshop_trash
Gold Member
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 20:17:09
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nice reviews! I concur with the majority of your conclusions (I've never owned a PH-1, and have only owned one OD-1), but it still makes me wanna hook up a bunch of my old pedals for a similar test.
and I always thought the PW-2 was used for heavy distortion rather than heavy overdrive (IIRC, it's very Muff-ey albeit not very loud); was yours more mild-mannered? |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 20:44:55
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the PW-2 is a crossover that i probably should have listed under both (like the HM-2 and the XT-2 may have been a crossover as well if only referencing its low gain settings) but it wouldn't have won anyways heh... might have won my "biggest disappointment due to high anticipation" award.
i tend to make the disction based on the voicing. the PW-2 voiced to sound like a jcm900 or something similar cranked whereas something like the DS-1 or MT-2 are just distortions and i've never got the feeling they were trying to approximate anything. there were some hybrids (HM-3 as a mid scooped mesa mark iv, ML-2 as a tubescreamer through a dual recto, etc.) that were leaned too far to one side to make the crossover as they were more pure distortions than overdrive approximations.
as for the PW-2, it was heavy. metal zone type fuzziness but with a super farty low end and a lot more "dialed in" voicing towards an overdriven pentode tube amp w/ tons of 12ax7's and a few diodes/transistors added into the distortion circuit and you couldn't really control the voicing of the pedal enough to make it sound like something other than that.
does that make more sense?
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 20:53:57
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as for a short list of pedals that i feel are trying to sound like something...
OD-1 = overdriven plexi
SD-1 = overdriven late 70's/early 80's super lead w/ mid boost
HM-2 = cranked to the gills JCM800 (possibly boosted with an MXR D+)
BD-2 = cranked low wattage vintage tweed
XT-2 = screaming hiwatt or vox (possibly with a booster)
ML-2 = tubescreamer boosting a dual or triple rectifier on a mid scoop
HM-3 = mesa mark iv cranked with a mid scoop
PW-2 = JCM900 4xxx series on gain channel with bass on full
SD-2 (lead) = peavey ultra or 5150 on ultra/lead channel
SD-2 (crunch) = peavey ultra or 5150 on crunch channel
OD-2 (turbo on) = channel switching jcm800 on gain channel
that's all i can really think of offhand. |
Edited by - zentropa on 07/17/2008 15:42:04 |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 09:09:59
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quote:
Originally posted by zentropa
as for a short list of pedals that i feel are trying to sound like something...
OD-1 = overdriven plexi
SD-1 = overdriven late 70's/early 80's super lead w/ mid boost
HM-2 = cranked to the gills JCM800 (possibly boosted with an MXR D+)
BD-2 = cranked low wattage vintage tweed
XT-2 = screaming hiwatt or vox (possibly with a booster)
ML-2 = tubescreamer boosting a dual or triple rectifier on a mid scoop
HM-3 = mesa mark iv cranked with a mid scoop
PW-2 = JCM900 4xxx series on gain channel with bass on full
SD-2 (lead) = peavey ultra or 5150 on ultra/lead channel
SD-1 (crunch) = peavey ultra or 5150 on crunch channel
OD-2 (turbo on) = channel switching jcm800 on gain channel
that's all i can really think of offhand.
Hi zentropa
One of the simplest, & best reviews I've seen in a long time.
This post is going into my Long Term Archive of useful Information.
We should put this into the Tech Faq's.
Regards Dr. Bob |
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sp-1
Platinum Member
Germany
1454 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 10:16:53
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quote:
Originally posted by zentropa
as for a short list of pedals that i feel are trying to sound like something...
OD-1 = overdriven plexi
SD-1 = overdriven late 70's/early 80's super lead w/ mid boost
HM-2 = cranked to the gills JCM800 (possibly boosted with an MXR D+)
BD-2 = cranked low wattage vintage tweed
XT-2 = screaming hiwatt or vox (possibly with a booster)
ML-2 = tubescreamer boosting a dual or triple rectifier on a mid scoop
HM-3 = mesa mark iv cranked with a mid scoop
PW-2 = JCM900 4xxx series on gain channel with bass on full
SD-2 (lead) = peavey ultra or 5150 on ultra/lead channel
SD-1 (crunch) = peavey ultra or 5150 on crunch channel
OD-2 (turbo on) = channel switching jcm800 on gain channel
that's all i can really think of offhand.
Great list second sd-1 should be sd-2 I guess |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 15:05:01
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Yeah... very nice  |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 16:02:16
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quote:
Great list second sd-1 should be sd-2 I guess
thanks, and yah, i typo'd it but i made the change.
i'm curious if anyone feels i'm "wrong" on any of those.
seems like a lot of them have about a 2 year lag after the amp becomes well-known.
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visserman
Platinum Member
1072 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2008 : 10:34:38
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Great post zentra!!
I like your conclusion of the overdrives/distortions sounding like particular amps.
Any idea what an Ibanez TS808 and TS9 emulates?
What about the MD-2?
What kind of amps did you use for your tests?
I have done these kind of tests myself as well, and used a lot of different amps/guitars/speakercabs. Most of the time a different set-up only articulated the sound of a particular pedal a little better, but the initial conclusion usually did not change.
I agree with your findings on the BF-2. I have a few of them and one is from 1980, and it sounds fuller compared to the later versions. [--- The MIJ-hype, would it be true then??!--] |
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Potter V8
Bronze Member
Brazil
106 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2008 : 12:31:30
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Thanks zentropa, this list will help me a lot to choose some pedals I want.
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2008 : 15:58:22
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visserman:
this is a combination of about 45 amps and 15 years.
a lot of them were done recently though. my most recent amps i've been using:
JCM900 4102 combo
silver jubilee 2558 combo
peavey valve king 112 combo
peavey valve king royal 8 combo
fender champion 110 combo
fender princeton 65 combo
peavey backstage 15 combo
as for a tube screamer, i never thought it emulated an amp all that well, but i'd have to say it's probably going after a plexi/jmp sound.
as for the MD-2, i didn't spend enough time with it to draw a conclusion on that (it was a demo at a store... and setup after an SD-1 in a pedal display, so i can't say if it was 100% accurate). i just know i was not impressed by it. feeling i got was JCM900/2000 type of sound.
quote:
I agree with your findings on the BF-2. I have a few of them and one is from 1980, and it sounds fuller compared to the later versions. [--- The MIJ-hype, would it be true then??!--]
i find w/ MIJ pedals you have 4 sounds:
1. "use a coin" label either silver or black screw.
2. "use your fingers" black label
3. ACA vs. PSA versions (some transitioned ~1985-86 i think)
4. green label.
seems with modulation effects that #1 always sounds the warmest. i would blame it on component aging, but i've found that a pedal made in 81 with the coin label and a pedal made in 82 with a fingers label seems to sound pretty different (and this is comparing several) with the older one being way fuller.
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visserman
Platinum Member
1072 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2008 : 17:23:00
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zentropa,
You have some amazing amps there man!!
Last night I have been playing with the HM-2, and keeping in mind the sound of a JMC 800.
I used my Marshalls [Reverb12 and Lead--small, low wattage solid-state amps from the 80s, which I beef up with pedals to get them to sound much better that what they really are!--] and it seems that the celestionspeakers do help quite a lot to give the amps the sound of a JMC800.
TS808 and TS9 sound very similar to SD-1 so your guess is probably right.
Oh talking about the SD-1, from all the different versions I find that the SD-1 still does have the same sound. Tested modern ones verses first version ones and they really sounded similar. I guess it is one of the few which has not changed its sound, as I totally agree with your conclusion about the "four different sounds"
I would like more people to comment on this statement but it takes good ears, being objective about sound and keeping your test set-up the same all the way through your tests.
About the MD-2: Had very similar feeling, tried one a while ago in a shop, was not impressed, until last year I bought one and it struck me that it is a very special pedal. One with a disctintive sound as well.
Any idea what a MXR Dist.+ is based on?
What about a Pro-Co Rat? They are just the ones I can think of for now which do have their own characteristic sound.
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the pedal wars...
