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stahlhart
Platinum Member
1318 Posts |
 Posted - 09/10/2006 : 05:58:32
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Anyone ever done this on their own and know the general gist of how to go about it?
I've got a old junky '80s vintage Les Paul Standard copy, with a bolt-on neck. My higher strings are bottoming out from about the 9th-10th fret downward. I suppose that I could raise the bridge a little, but I'd rather not get the action higher than necessary -- and, to be honest, I'm not really sure how correct or out of whack the neck bow is right now (the guitar spent many years in storage, not really being played all that much).
I'm afraid that if I take it into a shop I'll get laughed out onto the street. 
I don't really want to sink any money in it, and I'm not really ready to invest in a decent prefessional-grade instrument just yet; I really need to work on my improving my skills somewhat before I take that step. I'm almost tempted to get something like a cheapie Squire to practice on, if Guitar Center puts them on sale.
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Edited by - stahlhart on 09/10/2006 05:59:03 |
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StratoSphere
Double Platinum Member
Canada
2232 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 06:53:47
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you can afford a nice guitar. just sell some gear so you can afford it  |
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lazzrath
Bronze Member
Canada
103 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 08:30:05
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Here's a relatively quick (though a little tricky) explanation.
There are three main parts that need adjusting to make sure your strings don't rattle - while the guitar is on your lap (assuming you're a righty) from left to right, its the nut, neck, and saddle.
1. Nut
To check this, start on the sixth string, fretting the 3rd fret with your right hand, and look closely at the side of the neck, making sure that the string is clearing the first fret (if only barely, that's ok). Do this for all the strings checking for proper clearance. If one or more of the strings does not clear the first fret properly, then the nut may need to be shimmed, which in all honesty is not that hard, and I can explain this process to if you wish. If all strings are a go, then off to no. 2
2. Neck
Here's the direct answer to your question - the truss rod issue. I do like to start with the nut (even though you're not experiencing problems in the first few frets) because a problem there can point to other neck issues. The truss rod is actually fairly simple to adjust. You want the neck to have a little bow to it (U), without being completely straight (-), and especially without being backbowed (n). To check this, press on the first fret of the sixth string with your left hand, and the last fret on your neck with your right hand, and use another finger on your left hand to tap the string somewhere around the third fret - if there's a slight clearance without touching the fret, you have a proper bow. if the string is touching the third fret without any help, you need to loosen the truss rod (counterclockwise). If the string is really far away, then you need to tighten it (clockwise). You want to have a very slight amount of space between the fret and the string, and you want this to be fairly consistent down the neck. Be sure to check the first string too after the sixth, because neck problems can vary from one side to the other (I know! It's weird!).
3. The bridge
Again, looking at your post, you mention raising the bridge, although you don't want to really affect the action. If the nut has good clearance, and the neck is properly bowed, you can probably afford to raise that bridge to a comfortable playing height and still have a clean sounding fingerboard all around. I've never been really sold on any of the 'exacting' bridge height specs, as it always varies from guitar to guitar, so my best advice is just adjust slowly, and play it a lot in between. As long as you like how it feels and all the notes are clear, then you're on the right track!
Other things to remember:
When you want to visually check the 'bow' in your neck, look from headstock to body - not the other way around. hold on to the body with your right hand and hold the headstock with your left, and put your eyeball flush with the nut, looking straight at the pickups. This will give you an honest look as to the true shape of your neck, and you will easily be able to spot any inconsistencies (like their might be between the 9-10th fret) which you may have to work around (possibly only lifting the bridge a smidgen on one side)
Looking down the top of the neck (again, with your eyes extremely close to the nut) you'll also be able to see if any frets (the possible problem frets) have popped out slightly, by looking down and seeing how the light reflects off the metal. Popped frets can be easy and hard, depending on the guitar - sometimes, you can take a cloth and cover the fret, and tap it (very gently) with a hammer to get it back into place (though if you don't feel comfortable doing this, I can assure you that no one's going to laugh you out of the local shop for this problem, especially if you've been able to deduce it by yourself).
Remember not to use these directions as a 1-2-3 thing all the time, either. Sometimes you'll be bouncing back and forth between steps to make sure everything's in balance.
Count your blessing that you're not also having floyd issues with this guitar...
(gotta love the hard tailpieces)
This might be a bit of a myth (so I saved it for last) but I always seem to get better results from my setups in the store after playing the guitar for a bit and 'warming it up'. I don't like to do adjustments cold. I dunno - maybe it's just me, but I get a much better idea of what I have to do by playing it for a while, and the neck is all warmed up... or maybe I'm a little crazy.
Good luck! I hope I haven't forgotten anything, but feel free to ask if you're still having troubles. |
Edited by - lazzrath on 09/10/2006 08:31:56 |
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lazzrath
Bronze Member
Canada
103 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 08:32:30
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I'm sorry - that wasn't relatively quick at all.
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stahlhart
Platinum Member
1318 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 16:42:00
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lazzrath: I really, REALLY appreciate the time and effort you put into explaining this -- thanks much! It never really dawned on my until now that there had to be other things to take into account, like the nut height and such... but the approach as you've described it makes perfect sense to me.
Time to get to work on it -- thanks again... 
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 17:29:32
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i know its off the subject a little... but i read an article by a guy at the gibson custom shop a while ago and he recommends that the tailpeice shound be flush to the body of the les paul as he thinks it improves sustain and (i think) he said it helps with the string tension as well.... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 09/10/2006 17:30:14 |
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stahlhart
Platinum Member
1318 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 21:03:36
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I recall wondering about that when I got my first Gibson-type guitar -- that they put all of those threads in the tail piece screws, and if the height with respect to the bridge made any difference... but your explanation makes sense, and that was pretty much all I've ever done, just turn those in all the way so that the tailpiece is flush with the body. Just seems to be more secure that way.
As long as we've had a good answer here for the subject, and we're going a little off-topic -- what say we stay more or less on topic with respect to this off-topic? The tail piece on Jeff Beck's black Les Paul. Anyone ever notice that? It looks like it's been modified to sit at an angle... and there isn't even a separate bridge any longer; the tailpiece is up close to the bridge pickup:
http://www.vintageguitar.com.br/m_artigos6.shtml
I've seen some older SGs that have a tailpiece with "saddles" stamped on the upper surface in the approximate pattern of adjusted bridge saddles -- is this one of those type of bridges?
(edit: I guess that it's dark brown and not black -- difficult to tell in any of the photos I've ever seen of it)
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Edited by - stahlhart on 09/10/2006 21:06:03 |
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lazzrath
Bronze Member
Canada
103 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 03:16:06
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quote:
Originally posted by FRANZONI
i know its off the subject a little... but i read an article by a guy at the gibson custom shop a while ago and he recommends that the tailpeice shound be flush to the body of the les paul as he thinks it improves sustain and (i think) he said it helps with the string tension as well....
the idea with this is, you just want enough clearance so the strings, while going down at an angle (toward the tailpiece after the intonation adjustment block) do not touch the rest of the bridge in any ways. it's hard to explain, but you'll understand completely after looking at the bridge for yourself. you don't want the rest of the string to be touching the bridge - only the bit that sits on the intonation block should be touching. so, having that tailpiece flush with the body might actually be a bad thing, because it may pull the string so far down that it rubs on the edge of the bridge. you want it just high enough to clear the edge.
the extra sustain is not worth the risk if the strings are cutting into the side of the bridge - some guitars can have that tailpiece down all the way, while others cannot - it all depends on the angle of your neck (how it's been set into the body) that really affects this (and how far away the tailpiece is from the bridge) |
Edited by - lazzrath on 09/11/2006 03:19:16 |
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stahlhart
Platinum Member
1318 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 03:26:33
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That's a good point -- I forgot about that. I'm pretty sure that whenever I've set it up the strings were never touching the bridge anywhere else but on the saddle blocks. I agree that that would be a bad thing.
/just checked my guitar -- tailpiece fully down, strings only touching saddles
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lazzrath
Bronze Member
Canada
103 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 03:26:34
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quote:
Originally posted by stahlhart
http://www.vintageguitar.com.br/m_artigos6.shtml
I've seen some older SGs that have a tailpiece with "saddles" stamped on the upper surface in the approximate pattern of adjusted bridge saddles -- is this one of those type of bridges?
I hope not - those bridges are an all-in-one sorta deal - I used to see then on really cheap BC Rich guitars and some others (low-end Jacksons, etc.). Yeah, the saddles are preset just like they are on an acoustic, so you've got to be real lucky and hope that the intonation is right, 'cause you ain't never gonna fix it.
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stahlhart
Platinum Member
1318 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 03:31:01
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I'm going to have to dig further on this -- I've never really seen a good close up shot of the guitar to see any detail in that bridge/tailpiece rig he's got there... just curious as to why he went that route instead of the stock Gibson setup (like the Les Paul he used in the '60s with the Jeff Beck Group):
http://www.thegrandeballroom.com/jbgphotos.html
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 00:08:15
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| hey stahlhart...nice one with the jeff beck pics... he was/is one of my first major influnces on the electric guitar..as far as i know his les paul from the blow by bloe era is 'oxblood' that cover and the cover of 'wired'(as well as the music of course....!!!) are some of my favs... he was on a couple of stanley clarke/jan hammer albums at the time as well that are worth checking out....lazzrath i know where you are coming from with the neck/body point...i should have explained my experience with that type of guitar is only as far as my sg2000s which has a supporting strip down through it.... maybe thats why i t doesn't have neck/body issues |
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stahlhart
Platinum Member
1318 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 20:28:00
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If you ever have the opportunity to, there are JBG live recordings in circulation from 1968, and his playing back then was simply amazing -- completely different from the '70s and more recent stuff he's done... you get a taste of it from the Truth album, but it goes way beyond that onstage. Completely different approach with pentatonic --> Les Paul --> Marshall compared to Clapton and Page from that same general era; Jeff pushed the boundaries quite a bit farther.
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Topic |
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Truss Rod Adjustment?
