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DovoodooMiracleman
Copper Member
Philippines
17 Posts |
 Posted - 06/18/2009 : 08:20:12
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Here's my first go on a topic, not sure if it has been posted yet...but-what does COSM really mean? when I see this I always think that the pedal is digital in nature. Need your expert opinion as I am about to purchase a FBM-1 this week and the COSM sign is really giving me second thoughts (for the cash I am about to invest). I've tried out the pedal in the store, brought my telecaster and it sounded ok, used a Laney Amp which model I am not sure of, I just couldn't really pull off that Bassman Tweed that I was hoping for but still,it sounded good. Are there any technical issues with COSM compared to Analog? |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 08:53:24
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COSM = Composite Object Sound Modeling
They basically sample waveforms & create algorithms using Digital Sound Processing to mimick the gear they're modeling the effect(s) & burn the code into ROMs.
Most people abhor COSM & anything but analogue goodness. Its all rather an elitist, old school mind-set. Digital modeling techniques are very accurate these days & shouldn't scare you away from certain effects. Seek reviews & demos on YouTube & elsewhere to support a general consensus about a particular product.
Another thing I recommend you do is to buy from a reputable source that allows returns w/o charging a restocking fee. That way, you can actually try it out at home within your own setup to see if it really fits your expectations.
I didn't really like the FBM-1 but I'm sure it wasn't for the COSM inside.
Good luck  |
Edited by - DeFrag on 06/18/2009 09:01:24 |
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Frederick
Copper Member
Belgium
46 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 09:43:21
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quote:
Originally posted by DeFrag
Most people abhor COSM & anything but analogue goodness. Its all rather an elitist, old school mind-set. Digital modeling techniques are very accurate these days & shouldn't scare you away from certain effects.
Exactly my thoughts, DeFrag.
I have only one Boss COSM pedal, i.e. the RT-20 Rotary Ensemble. I have only good things to say about it. It may not be an exact copy of the real thing, but it comes real close. And surely beats buying the 'real' thing.
And besides, in their search for the holy grail of tone, many forget that a great deal of it is to be found in their fingers. COSM or analog, a good player will sound good. |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 10:50:59
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quote:
Originally posted by DeFrag
COSM = Composite Object Sound Modeling
They basically sample waveforms & create algorithms using Digital Sound Processing to mimick the gear they're modeling the effect(s) & burn the code into ROMs.
Most people abhor COSM & anything but analogue goodness. Its all rather an elitist, old school mind-set. Digital modeling techniques are very accurate these days & shouldn't scare you away from certain effects. Seek reviews & demos on YouTube & elsewhere to support a general consensus about a particular product.
Another thing I recommend you do is to buy from a reputable source that allows returns w/o charging a restocking fee. That way, you can actually try it out at home within your own setup to see if it really fits your expectations.
I didn't really like the FBM-1 but I'm sure it wasn't for the COSM inside.
Good luck
Thatīs very true DeFrag, Iīm of the old analog school, tubes and discreet effects.
But Iīm very impressed by the COSM technology, the OD-20 for example is a great pedal, Roland Micro Cube another and so on
But at the same time I donīt like digital guitars like Line6 much, there are lots of things missing.
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 12:57:38
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if i understand Goran right,i think he and i are alike on some of the digital/analogue debate.... for some things analogue is great and sometimes digital can be just as good..recently i went back to using a Line 6 pod xt pro mixed with my valve amps and boss/various pedals..i've turned off all the amp sims and am just using it as an extra effects processor mainly for reverb,it's switchable stereo effects loop(which my amps don't have) and some preprogrammable delay/modulation effects....putting this digital stuff through a good amp can make the world of difference to the end result..OK you didn't get it to sound like a '59 bassman but you still thought it sounded good so the technology can't be all bad.... personally i like valve amps as my final destination for my effects either digital or analogue and miking the speaker on a bigger gig to capture all the pieces of the sound,speakers play a huge part in this IMHO..to me at high gig volumes is where some of these amp simulators start to fall apart soundwise compared to the real thing especially if there put into a el cheapo practice amp... |
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kipper15
Copper Member
United Kingdom
40 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 14:56:07
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If you liked the sound of that pedal, check out the FDR-1 '65 Deluxe Reverb pedal too. The tremolo on that thing is killer!
I own both of these Boss pedals. Personally, I think these are outstanding products cosnidering what they cost, so much so that in the last 6 months I've used my ME-50 considerably less. Incidentally the ME-50 (and the newer ME-70) both use COSM technology to emulate different stompboxes and, from what I can tell, they come very close to the real thing.
The Bassman pedal (and the Deluxe Reverb pedal for that matter) really needs a good quality, clean tube amp to sound its best. I run mine through the clean channel of a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, and I'm very pleased with the sounds I get with these Boss "Legend Series" pedals. If you have a Fender tube amp to partner them with, I don't think you can go far wrong.
I can certainly get the "tweed" vibe going easily enough with the Bassman pedal...although I've no doubt this is helped by the fact that I'm using a Fender amp which is kind of a modern take on the Bassman anwyay.
As I've posted elsewhere on this forum, it's not 1969 anymore it's 2009. Digital modelling and other emulation techniques have advanced significantly in recent years, we should embrace it.
Let's face it, most of us don't have the space (or the funds) to accomodate a real Bassman and a real Deluxe Reverb. These pedals do come close to the sound of the original amps when partnered with a good clean all-tube amp. As Franzoni rightly says, any digital effect can sound great if the final sound comes from a tube amp.
Enjoy  |
Edited by - kipper15 on 06/18/2009 14:57:05 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 14:58:24
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If I'm looking for "tone" I don't go near COSM. If I'm looking for something "different" that I can't get any other way, COSM is OK.
As an example - if I'm looking for rich chorus, I'll us a CE-2, I won't use a COSM pedal pretending to be a CE-2. If I'm looking for something that sounds like a Fender Bassman, I'll use the FBM-1 rather than drag my Bassman head out and try to make it sound OK through my Marshall cabs.
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jsoi_narciso
Silver Member
Philippines
200 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 18:52:07
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for me, COSM is not bad, most specially the pedal that i've heard and seen personal (the OD-20). a guitar player from our alternate band used it with a beat up strat and no amplifiers just plugged it directly to the mixer, the sound it produces is awesome, if chances would come i would willing to buy one myself but twin pedals are not available yet in our country, too bad  |
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jsoi_narciso
Silver Member
Philippines
200 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 18:55:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Frederick
And besides, in their search for the holy grail of tone, many forget that a great deal of it is to be found in their fingers. COSM or analog, a good player will sound good.
+1 
great tone comes from the fingers not from the pedals  |
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PaulH
Gold Member
535 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 19:08:32
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I couldn't care less what/how it works.
As long as it does the job I need, I ain't bothered. |
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Jkeatley
Copper Member
United Kingdom
47 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 22:02:19
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i agree with franzoni here.
i use the same rig, valve amp one side, pod xt the other, don't care how good the modelling is cos the tone itself is nice, sounds nuffin like the real thing to be fair but still its a good tone,
don't avoid it for it being modelling, the tone of the device in question is the important thing.
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Brutalitarian Supremacy
Silver Member
USA
270 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 22:31:33
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quote:
Originally posted by kipper15
As I've posted elsewhere on this forum, it's not 1969 anymore it's 2009. Digital modelling and other emulation techniques have advanced significantly in recent years, we should embrace it.
embrace it all you want chief...leave me outta your toneless digital fantasy...flashback to the early 80's....man those old Marshall and Fender amps are dinosaurs you need to get w/ Solid State technology...it's the future of amps man...in 20 yrs nobody will give two shits about those flawed tube amps...keep on drinking the Kool Aid |
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PaulH
Gold Member
535 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 01:31:17
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Bottom line.
Your audience don't know, or couldn't care less, what you use.
They just want it to sound good.
Over the years I've seen plenty of live bands and bought plenty of albums.
I've heard plenty of musicians get good sounds out of digital.
I've also heard plenty of musicians get some shite sounds out of their vintage tubes. |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 09:06:39
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quote:
Your audience don't know, or couldn't care less, what you use.
They just want it to sound good.
Heh, 97% of the audience doesn't even know what sounding good is :P
as for my thoughts on COSM and other modeling technology, i'm okay with it for the times where convenience is a necessity and for small-scale digital recording. i personally would never base my live tone off of it. the real limit to any modeling technology is that it's generally based upon 1 interpretation of an amp. e.g. a pedal modeling a pristine vintage deluxe reverb with stock speaker at volume X with mic Y in placement Z, in studio room W.
where it falls short in terms of live reproduction is that your amp sounds one way at 5', another way at 25', and another way with however it's mic'd going through the PA, etc. add in that you may have found your own personal gem of an amp that sounds different from its "idealized" modeled version and you may get nothing close to what you want from it. i've yet to find a single cosm device that could adequately model subtle dynamics, but how important that is can be up for debate.
if i remember correctly, a famous studio guy was demoing the prototype cyber-twin before it came out and when it came to one amp setting he was like "umm, this is wrong." they went and showed him the amp they used as the model for that sound... and sure enough, the amp had some bad caps/resistors/etc. and needed maintenance. they had to re-do the modeled version after they fixed the amp.
quote:
The Bassman pedal (and the Deluxe Reverb pedal for that matter) really needs a good quality, clean tube amp to sound its best. I run mine through the clean channel of a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, and I'm very pleased with the sounds I get with these Boss "Legend Series" pedals. If you have a Fender tube amp to partner them with, I don't think you can go far wrong.
the problem with this is that basically, to get a bassman or deluxe reverb sound, you need an amp that's almost the same as a bassman, deluxe reverb (or very similar type). the key to this style will be when someone can plug in a modeling pedal into their 15 watt crate practice amp and get a convincing tone of the modeled amp.
if a similarly voiced tube amp is required, it kind of negates the need for the pedal.
overall, modeling stuff can be convenient, but nothing has been good enough out there yet for me to consider it equal to the real thing in terms of pure tone. i will say i'd rather lug around an RT-20 than an actual rotary speaker, even if the real thing sounds better. |
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Right Foot Boss
Gold Member
USA
881 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 10:00:49
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Couldn't care less about COSM.
My only beef is that they are copying instead of creating.
Where is my Boss analog ringtone or sitar pedal? What about Boss Octave Fuzz, or a true Boss circuit bent pedal?
My point is there is still new ground to cover before paving over the old.
That being said what is new? |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 10:30:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Jkeatley
i agree with franzoni here.
i use the same rig, valve amp one side, pod xt the other, don't care how good the modelling is cos the tone itself is nice, sounds nuffin like the real thing to be fair but still its a good tone,
don't avoid it for it being modelling, the tone of the device in question is the important thing.
I don't use the amp modelling side of the XT pro....basically i have everything turned off except the effects mostly reverb and delay with a couple of univibe/phaser/flanger patches....pedals i couldn't justify buying or having on my board due to the limited amount of use they would get...i'm using a real valve/tube overdrive pedal and a couple of old 70's valve amps at the end of the chain... basically the Pod is sandwiched between tube gear....so far so good..normally before,i would get pissed off with the pod halfway throough a gig and drag it out of my chain threatening to chuck it out of the van on the way home but so far it's lasted at least 7 gigs on top of my musicman combo after the Boss pedalboard...i'm using it as a stereo splitter to feed the Marshall and the Musicman...the switchable,stereo effects loop is really handy for bringing the Dynacord CLS 22 leslie simulator in and out in stereo it's an old analogue effect and best kept out of he signal chain when not in use... it really fills out the sound..i can get that early Beatles/Clapton cream era leslie effect.....my guitar gently weeps/badge etc or switch it to fast and get the Gilmour 'any colour you like' sound from DSOTM... of all the effects i've used over the years the Dynacord leslie sim has the most non musos asking me "WTF was that in the middle of that song "some people said it makes the guitar sound huge......Like i said before,i think digital has it's place just like analogue if used correctly.... i know some guys who wouldn't put anything between their guitar and amp except a cable.......and used to get on my case when i was only using 3 or 4 Boss pedals into one amp..... .....obviously they haven't seen my gig rig lately.............. |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 06/19/2009 10:36:39 |
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Topic |
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COSM AND FBM-1
