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TKO Ken
Silver Member
USA
162 Posts |
 Posted - 07/06/2008 : 22:00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Bob
Hi TKO Ken
quote:
Oh my god!! look at all those pedals!! It looks like eBay threw-up
Actually! it looks a little like my lab bench...
Before I purchased my storage cases.
BTW, that's a nice SRV Strat, you built, & it sounds pretty good on the video.
I bet it would kick some serious butt, into my Fender 75 tube amp.
Regards Dr. Bob
awe man I gettin' jealous, I would love to own a nice amp
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visserman
Platinum Member
1072 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 19:37:18
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What a crazy world we live in.
Why not create your own sound? Use the tone of other people you like as a stepping stone, but really just find out what you like yourself about pedals, amps and guitars.
I have quite a few "trade-mark" sounds I like for myself. They are not unique, more characteristic for certain amps and certain tones.
I really like the clean Marshall sound: Bonedry, very bright, a bit of mid and a little bass.
This sound is great for Fenders, and any single coil guitar.
Do like the Vox sound a lot as well. Some Bosspedals do help you along the way if you do not own a voxamp.
I find Celestionspeakers great for that clean, bonedry tone. I know, most Marshall users will go for overdrive and more and more, not me.
The Fendersound [from the amps I mean] is great too. Some of the Sans-amp pedals can get you there.
I do find overdrive and distortion great, but still have not found a sound which works very well in a band: The detail of the sound I am getting on my own is so lost. A little overdrive is fine, as that tone is still there, but raw dirty tones do tend to get lost a bit.
Overal it is very hard to descibe these things. I do not have anything on line, so can not let you hear some samples.
I do have a certain approach to making sounds, in my own band I will debate what the other guitarplayer should go for soundwise. I will even give him a guitar, some pedals and an amp to get there.
I like the two guitars to complement each other, do not like two humbuck guitars in one band, guitars need to be opposites of each other.
All common sense really, but I am still surprised not many people do think about such issues. You hear the results often in bands creating a tonal mess on stage, due to their own "faults"
Overall the whole sound-thing is a creative process, most of the people we now admire have stumbled upon their sound, that is why I have difficulty people copying other artist their sound. Just listen and learn and play, and yes it takes time, but so does getting good on your instrument, and writing good songs which the world will like [not just your mates!!] |
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TKO Ken
Silver Member
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 23:31:16
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quote:
Originally posted by visserman
What a crazy world we live in.
Why not create your own sound? Use the tone of other people you like as a stepping stone, but really just find out what you like yourself about pedals, amps and guitars.
I have quite a few "trade-mark" sounds I like for myself. They are not unique, more characteristic for certain amps and certain tones.
I really like the clean Marshall sound: Bonedry, very bright, a bit of mid and a little bass.
This sound is great for Fenders, and any single coil guitar.
Do like the Vox sound a lot as well. Some Bosspedals do help you along the way if you do not own a voxamp.
I find Celestionspeakers great for that clean, bonedry tone. I know, most Marshall users will go for overdrive and more and more, not me.
The Fendersound [from the amps I mean] is great too. Some of the Sans-amp pedals can get you there.
I do find overdrive and distortion great, but still have not found a sound which works very well in a band: The detail of the sound I am getting on my own is so lost. A little overdrive is fine, as that tone is still there, but raw dirty tones do tend to get lost a bit.
Overal it is very hard to descibe these things. I do not have anything on line, so can not let you hear some samples.
I do have a certain approach to making sounds, in my own band I will debate what the other guitarplayer should go for soundwise. I will even give him a guitar, some pedals and an amp to get there.
I like the two guitars to complement each other, do not like two humbuck guitars in one band, guitars need to be opposites of each other.
All common sense really, but I am still surprised not many people do think about such issues. You hear the results often in bands creating a tonal mess on stage, due to their own "faults"
Overall the whole sound-thing is a creative process, most of the people we now admire have stumbled upon their sound, that is why I have difficulty people copying other artist their sound. Just listen and learn and play, and yes it takes time, but so does getting good on your instrument, and writing good songs which the world will like [not just your mates!!]
Sooooo, you have a problem with people that copy someone else's sound but, "their" sound has to consist of the guitar, pups, boxes and amp sound that you delagate? Just a little controlling don't you think? |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 00:27:40
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quote:
I like the two guitars to complement each other, do not like two humbuck guitars in one band, guitars need to be opposites of each other.
All common sense really, but I am still surprised not many people do think about such issues. You hear the results often in bands creating a tonal mess on stage, due to their own "faults"
that's simple frequency saturation. happens lots both live and on recordings. usually happens when individual band egos are larger than finding something that works.
quote:
Why not create your own sound? Use the tone of other people you like as a stepping stone, but really just find out what you like yourself about pedals, amps and guitars.
i find there's 2 kinds of people. those that use it as a frame of reference or stepping stone, and those that try to straight out copy.
the latter are the guitarists you find with usually pretty awful tone. my personal favorites are those playing a dimebag signature guitar through an 86,000 watt solid state randall with every dime signature pickup/pedal that exists. the sound is usually godawful. zakk wylde seems to be the next guy who gets imitated just as badly and i've never thought he had very good tone either.
my own tone is based more upon playing dynamics of a given situation than anything else.
my dirty tone is pretty simple. when i blast a chord, anyone in the line of fire of the amp should feel their testicles slap against their thighs and raise their fist and scream "ROCK!" i've never had anyone complain when i achieve that on a given night.
my clean tone is pretty simple. when i pick out an articulate counterpoint melody, all the emo wusses in the audience should shed a tear and successfully woo that one girl who digs on guys who aren't afraid to cry in public.
my in between tone is somewhere in between. it should rumble the nutsack more than outright smack it and keep the wusses on the verge of tears.
i definitely have my own sound, but it was definitely influenced by bands that did those things for me.
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visserman
Platinum Member
1072 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 11:41:59
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Sooooo, you have a problem with people that copy someone else's sound but, "their" sound has to consist of the guitar, pups, boxes and amp sound that you delagate? Just a little controlling don't you think?
[/quote]
I am talking of people who do not have a vision of the sound they want, a vision of how the band needs to sound and how you achieve that. I have no difficulty with folks who have a strong vision of what they want to sound like and know how to get that, and I will work with them alongside. No I am talking about people who really do not know, and there are a lot out there, and my suggestions towards the sound are more a steppingstone rather than being a controlfreak who wants his own way.
Usually after some rehearsals people start to see what kind of sound I am after, and they then develop their own ideas from there onwards.
About equipment: Most people I play with are not full-time players, their gear is so-so, mainly because they have not given it time, have not experimented as much etc.
The average Joe does not spend all that much time on issues like playing, tone, amps etc. they just want to have fun, and fun is playing a good song on a guitar which feels right, in a band they enjoy playing with. Ask them why the music sounds the way it does, they often do not know.
Zentropa: I like how you put your story there, and can subscribe to this whole idea, great stuff!!
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 22:38:17
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hehe, i do subscribe to it but i'm also someone with 30 distortion pedals.
although i have 4 tube amps and 12 guitars, i'm aware of the limitations each instrument/setup has and i like to have whatever i might want at the moment be at my finger tips.
something to keep in mind too... when matching up guitars in a band, there's many ways to help give contrast, even if 2 guitars have relative similar setups/configurations.
amp types, speaker types, pickup styles, pickup magnets, pickup positions, body woods, etc. all have a big factor. hell, even 1 guitarist using a brass pick will change things immensely. the simpler you keep it, the better things often sound as long as the basics are kept in mind.
2 les pauls playing bridge humbuckers both going through marshall plexi's are going to sound pretty muddy together.
i go so far as to map out frequencies each member of the band will occupy as well as what kind of space they are trying to fill sonically.
amp... high gain vs. clean headroom? if clean, solid state or tube rectifier? if dirty, triode vs. pentode vs. pentode w/ some transistors and diodes wired into the distortion circuit (e.g. mesa)? speakers? jensens vs. green backs vs. vintage 30's vs. GT70/75's vs. JBL, etc. will all have their own voicing. open back vs. closed back? EL34's? 5881's? 6L6? 6G6? EL84? etc.
pickups... single coils vs. humbuckers. if single coils, true singles vs. stacked vs. rail buckers? alnico II vs. alnico V vs. ceramic? 1/2/3/4/5 position? 250k/500k/1M pots? if buckers, alnico II vs. alnico V vs. ceramic? PAF voicing? hot voicing? scorching hot voicing? punchy mids? neck vs. bridge vs. neutral?
body woods... hollow body vs. solid body? mahogany, maple, alder, poplar, basswood, ash, mahogany w/ maple top? thick body vs. thin? traditional shape vs. odd shape?
getting down to the thick of it there's even a sonic difference between nickel and chrome hardware.
most people don't worry about this how i do, so generally i let them have their sound and i contrast them. i never expect anyone to have similar anal-retentive obsessive compulsive goodness that i do (and yes, i have willfully chosen to never reproduce and curse another life with similar "gifts").
99% of the time people have some elaborate rig that i blow out of the water with my simple, non-boutique rig.
the only time i ever see too much overlap between guitars is when it's 2 guitarists using very similar pickups through solid state amps as they just don't have as diverse a sonic palette as varying amps.
i mess around w/ lots of stuff, including setting my amp's treble knob to 0-2 and using the midrange knob as the treble, but this usually only works with a bassist using a P-pickup and an ampeg or similar dark/round bass sound. |
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theemarkmiller
Copper Member
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2008 : 03:14:16
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whats up everyone. new to this forum.
lately ive been going for a really nice fat clean tone. im getting a silverface super reverb in a couple of days. i hope it satisfies my search for a clean amp(who am i kidding, there's too much gear out there to settle on just one amp). and for distortion i'm going to a overdriven, almost clean tone. ive been thinking about a jcm900 mkiii. i used to have a hughes and kettner triamp and i miss it. if any of you listen to thrice, the tone on their air disc is what im aiming for.
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Krall
Bronze Member
Canada
88 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2008 : 06:38:08
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quote:
Originally posted by theemarkmiller
whats up everyone. new to this forum.
Welcome Mark!  |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2008 : 07:04:06
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mark:
the super reverb SHOULD satisfy you for a fat clean tone... if not i dunno if there are many other options out there. i regret not picking up a super or pro reverb back when they were affordable (or another twin reverb even...)
not sure if a jcm900 SL-X would be my first choice for what you are describing on the dirty tone though... if i remember correctly (and i may be wrong here, it's been a while since i played one) they are a more of a pentode overdrive tone... i know some of the combos had a selectable half power triode configuration option but i don't recall if the heads did or not.
unless you have a cheap line on the SL-X, you may want to consider a 5150 (which i feel are both under and overrated at the same time). the clean and crunch channels would probably pull off the kind of OD tone you are going for with more of an open triode config sound, while it still has the option to switch to the lead pentode configuration for compressed chugga chugga stuff. imo, they're over-rated if people think they're the end all be all of tone and under-rated if people think they lack versatility (yah, they don't really have a clean but they can pull off 3-4 distinct OD tones). should be in the $500 range or so.
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Right Foot Boss
Gold Member
USA
881 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2008 : 08:54:22
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Robert Smith of The Cure
The only thing that is stopping me is a Fender VI, or the more reasonably priced Schecter Hellcat VI. Aside from that major absence I've pretty much nailed that stepping stone of tone. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2008 : 09:23:07
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Hi theemarkmiller
Welcome to the forum from Australia.
Regards Dr. Bob |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 01:59:46
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Lately I have been trying for the Django Reinhardt sound. I am slowly starting to get it, but I am begining to wonder if smashing the third and fourth fingers of my left hand with that hammer is really going to help. |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 06:04:28
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quote:
Originally posted by pedals 4 pv
Lately I have been trying for the Django Reinhardt sound. I am slowly starting to get it, but I am begining to wonder if smashing the third and fourth fingers of my left hand with that hammer is really going to help.
what about getting a caravan as well for that natural reverb.........glad to see a fellow django fan......... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 07/21/2008 06:04:46 |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 08:53:36
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quote:
Originally posted by FRANZONI
quote:
Originally posted by pedals 4 pv
Lately I have been trying for the Django Reinhardt sound. I am slowly starting to get it, but I am begining to wonder if smashing the third and fourth fingers of my left hand with that hammer is really going to help.
what about getting a caravan as well for that natural reverb.........glad to see a fellow django fan.........
To do something very well is impressive, but to do so with such an added obstacle, makes Django one of the truly greatest players of all time. Another one is the famous Canadian singer/songwriter Joni Mitchell, who had to play with her hand on the neck of the guitar opposite to most people, with her wrist on the top of the neck, due to polio as a child. She used open tunings and unique chord patterns and was a major influence for many noted players
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joni_Mitchell#Unique_guitar_style
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Who's guitar tone do you try to emulate?
