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Rich_S
Silver Member
USA
219 Posts |
 Posted - 01/13/2009 : 19:39:51
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First let me explain my pedalboard. An old revision is shown in Post #2 of the LET'S SEE YOUR PEDALBOARDS! thread, though most of those pedals have been replaced since then.
http://www.bossarea.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3022
I don't use patch cords - the pedal board top is 1/8" aluminum, and it serves as a common back plate for all the pedals. input and output wires are soldered onto the jacks, and a 9 volt power wire is soldered wherever the red battery lead lands. The wires exit through a rubber grommet in the aluminum deck, to be interconnected underneath. Power comes from a non-isolated 9-volt supply, using the pedal cases and the aluminum deck as the common.
Got it?
It works way better than it should. I've never used shielded wire, just regular hookup wire not unlike what Boss uses in the pedals themselves. Never had a problem with noise.
Until today.
I finished hooking up the latest iteration and was greeted with tick, tick, tick... A bit of rate-knob twiddling disclosed that it was the CE-2 doing it. I've been building boards like this for 25 years, and never had a CE-2 do this.
The new effects chain begins with an Xotic BB Preamp, then the CE-2, then the rest of the pedals. I notice that the ticking goes away when I turn down my guitar volume. I thought this was weird, until I remembered the BB Preamp is true bypass - so when I turn down my guitar volume, I'm pulling the CE-2's input to ground.
The ticking goes away when I switch on the BB (I think, it's hard to tell with the extra noise of single-coils through a gain box).
The ticking DOES NOT go away when I move the guitar farther from the pedalboard, so I don't think the pickups are, um... picking up... the noise.
So, it seems as though the input lead of the CE-2 is picking up its own clock pulse. Suggestions? If I simply move the wires around, is there a certain area inside the pedal I should try to avoid?
BTW, I have heard this noise before. Back in about 1980, I installed the board from a CE-2 into the control cavity of a Les Paul. Stealth chorus: the only external indication was the little red LED peeking through the bridge pickup mounting ring. Anyway, that install ticked just like the noise I'm hearing today. IIRC, I ended up wrapping the whole PC board in brass shim stock and electrical tape to quiet the LP. Obviously, I don't want to do that in this case. |
Edited by - Rich_S on 01/13/2009 19:47:54 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 20:15:41
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Seen this pedalboard concept before. Sounds like a good idea... lot of work though, eh?
I have not heard of a CE-2 (or any Boss pedal) ticking before. How fast is the ticking - few beats per sceond of a lot faster? Does it change frequency with the "rate" knob?
The clock driver is the MN3101 (IC4) but the clock signal (or clock control) is present on a bunch of other components...
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Rich_S
Silver Member
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 20:27:57
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Yes, it's a ton of work, though swapping pedals goes pretty quickly once the deck is fabricated. People occasionally ask me to build them one, but my answer is always, "You can't afford it."
The pulse does vary with the CE-2 rate knob. It's about 2 ticks/second with the rate knob at 9:00 o'clock.
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 20:37:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich_S
Yes, it's a ton of work, though swapping pedals goes pretty quickly once the deck is fabricated. People occasionally ask me to build them one, but my answer is always, "You can't afford it."
The pulse does vary with the CE-2 rate knob. It's about 2 ticks/second with the rate knob at 9:00 o'clock.
Pretty much got to be the clock circuit causing it then.
Hard to pick how it's getting into the audio, but I suspect it will be induced or escaping from the pedal on the power supply wire.
If it is induced, maybe run shielded cable to/from the CE-2. Only connect the shield at the end away from the CE-2 and in the CE-2 just connect the core to the usual spot but run the shield as close to the connection point as possible.
If that doesn't fix it, it might be leaking out on the 9V supply. Try fabricating a little inductor and putting it in the 9V supply wire for the CE-2 (locate the inductor under the board). About 50 turns around a ferrite core (or even a 1/4" bolt) should do the job.
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 21:23:46
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Oh... hey. Did it tick before you added it to the board? i.e. if you had it as the only pedal between the guitar and amp running on a battery?
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Rich_S
Silver Member
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 16:27:26
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FIXED.
I removed the CE-2 and re-routed the audio wires. The input wire goes straight from the jack to the hole through the pedalboard deck, which thankfully is in the upper-right corner of the pedal, away from the MN3101 adn the rate pot.
I usually leave a little bit of slack coiled up inside the pedal, but it this case the short, straight path is better.
If this had failed, I was prepared with a plan B. It occurred to me that I hadn't had this problem on previous boards, but then realized this is the first time I've had a true bypass pedal between the CE-2 and the guitar. Earlier versions had either a GE-7 or SD-1 first in the chain. I suspect that if the clock tick was getting onto the CE-2's input before, the low output impedance of the preceding pedal was probably killing it, similar to how the BB Preamp does when switched on, or when the guitar volume was turned down.
If lead dress hadn't fixed it, I could have swapped the CE-2 with the BF-2 (#3 in my chain) and that might have helped.
Living and learning,
Rich |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 16:37:50
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Hi Rich_S
That's really good news.
Thanks for sharing your findings with the forum.
I guess shielded cable may have prevented this problem.
Regards Dr. Bob |
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Rich_S
Silver Member
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 16:44:11
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I tried shielded cable years ago, but many of these pedals are so tight inside that it seemed more trouble than it's worth.
It certainly is a pleasure working inside a CE-2 with its short PC board and lots of room to move around. Elegant simplicity. Hooking up a DC-2 or worse yet, DD-3 for my evil scheme is a royal pain in the patootie. |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 19:00:48
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Interesting to say the least.
I'd like to see some pics of the connections the next time you swap a pedal out.  |
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Rich_S
Silver Member
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 19:04:16
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| Not much to see - I just use 20 AWG hookup wire, soldered to the "tip" tab on the input & output jacks, and a third on the terminal where the (+) lead from the battery clip lands on the power connector. |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 21:01:51
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| I would have thought it'd be nice to solder in extra input & output jacks beneath the board for each pedal to facilitate easier pedal change-outs instead of hard-wiring each pedal into the chain. |
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Rich_S
Silver Member
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 21:08:23
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Each pedal has it's pigtails soldered in. Underneath, they are interconnected on an industrial-grade modular terminal block that makes installing & removing them, and changing their order easier. Drastic reduction in the overall number of connections that can fail.
In 25 years, I've had a board like this crap out on me once- cold solder joint in a BF-2. |
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CE-2 Ticking (go ahead, laugh)
