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fireman
Copper Member
14 Posts |
 Posted - 08/16/2008 : 11:51:58
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Moved to Mods & Technical by Moderator
hi, I'm having a problem with one of my pedals,
It's the only non boss pedal that I have, an ibanez fl9 (original issue.
so first, sorry for the non bossness of this post
but I figure the know how on here can get me going again.
the problem- my pedal will not turn on and off in the normal way,
i.e. when you step on the switch.
I've looked on the tech part of the forum and tried to understand
the flip flop post but it still seems like it works by voodoo or something.
the pedal will work if I take the back off and use a resistor
to bridge between the collector and -ve on the flip flop circuit,
then it will continue to work normally untill I take the battery off
or disconnect the input,
then I have to go throughthe routine of taking the back off again.
I feel sure that this is just something really simple like a resitor
or capacitor that has gone off value
since it all works once I have "forced" it to come on.
just hoped that somebody might have a bit more of an idea/deep knowlege.
thanks in advance.
cheers |
Edited by - Dr. Bob on 08/17/2008 03:46:53 |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2008 : 15:42:12
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Hi fireman
Welcome to the forum from Australia.
First - Check the actual switch is working.
-Then check for poor or bad solder joints around the flip flop transistors.
-Look for obvious damage to components.
-Check the transistors.
They look to be h=general pourpose & common 2SC1815's in the TS-9.
probably the same in the FL9
While I don't have the schematic for the FL-9
the TS-9 will be similar, but the component references will be different.
But it will at least give you the general idea of what to look for.
One of many the TS-9 schematics can be forum fro free here:
http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=1088
Maybe post some pics to the forum.
Good luck, keep us informed, if you find a schematic let us know.
Regards Dr. Bob
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Edited by - Dr. Bob on 08/17/2008 04:01:40 |
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fireman
Copper Member
14 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2008 : 20:00:42
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Hi Dr Bob, thanks for the relpy, in answer to your questions:
yes the switch is working, tested it with the meter and it also works once I've got ithe flip flop going.
the soldering seems to be OK but I'll run a hot iron over them just incase its a hair line crack.
no obvious damage to any of the components,
the pedal just stopped working
(obviously just before a gig as always)it had not been opened up or anything prior to ceasing to function.
the transitors are 2SC2458 Bl2A if that is any help to you
I believe these are obsolete now.
I did try to find a schematic for the cicuit but only turned up one
which I believe is an earlier version with different component values
and also different transistors,
although the layout of the part of the cicuit,
I have been investigating looked pretty much the same.
the thing that I forgot to mention in my first post
is that when I try to turn on the effect the led will flash very briefly each time that I press the switch,
almost as if the circuit is trying to turn on but then not quite managing it,
this is what made me think it could be a capacitor playing up.
as I said once I have manged to get the flip flop to function by placing a 1k5 resistor in parallel with the 66k
between the base on the transitor and the 0ve rail
the pedal functions just fine until it is powered down again.
I will try to put some pics on here when I've got some more,
batteries for the camera and worked out how to post photo's |
Edited by - Dr. Bob on 08/17/2008 03:57:50 |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 03:43:34
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Hi Fireman
First of all, please don't think I'm taking a shot at you, but please
edit your posts, before you click the (Post New reply) button.
I think you might be cutting & pasting your messages, from something like Note Pad or Word.
It's makes the post at this end about 2 miles wide on the screen
and is adding extra Line Feeds (double spacing).
Unless that happened, because of the size & width of the larger pics uploaded.
Width wise, I will clean-up your post later, it's just that they are difficult to read,
having to constantly scroll (L to R) for every sentence.
Also with the picture uploads, please if you can, rescale/resize them to about half to quarter size, (100K to 300K)
depending on the Res. of your camera, if you can get the file size down under 300K,
it uploads a heap better, & you will get less timeouts,
as the server at the bossarea end is trying to deal with your 600K+ files.
Regards Dr. Bob
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Edited by - Dr. Bob on 08/17/2008 15:20:02 |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 04:11:44
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Hi Fireman
Please upload some internal pictures of the front & back of the PCB.
I'll check your hand drawn sch. a bit later, With flip flops,
there is nothing really special abut the transistors they use,
in most case cheaper is better (bean counter mentality)
Regards Dr. Bob
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Edited by - Dr. Bob on 08/17/2008 12:02:38 |
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fireman
Copper Member
14 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 12:24:57
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Hi DR Bob, sorry for crashing the server with my massive photo files, I will try to resize them and repost with the internals as well. Is it possible for you to delete the other post with the large pics from your end? I think it must have been the photo's that made the text go really wide because I have only used the propper "reply to topic" thing.
cheers, Fireman. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 15:33:46
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quote:
Originally posted by fireman
Hi DR Bob, sorry for crashing the server with my massive photo files, I will try to resize them and repost with the internals as well. Is it possible for you to delete the other post with the large pics from your end? I think it must have been the photo's that made the text go really wide because I have only used the propper "reply to topic" thing.
cheers, Fireman.
Hi fireman
I won't delete the other thread/pics, just tell me the names of the smaller pics that you upload, & I will rename the images that that are displayed.
BTW, I have left your previous post above unedited, so you can see what I mean, by having to scroll a lot.
I guess you will have to manually enter some Returns, when you are typing your posts.
As we do after approx. the width of of the reply window.
I looks like, you are just typing in continuous text & allowing the
forum to word wrap to a paragraph, that's not normally a problem, unless a very wide picture is also displayed.
This has happened a few times in other threads & posts as well.
Thanks for your patience, while we sort out this minor issue.
At what stage are you with the flip flop diagnosis?
What General purpose GP NPN transistors, do you have access to?
The pinouts on 2SB-C Japanese transistors are slightly different to the BC457-8-9 commonly available ones, but they should work at a pinch.
Goog Luck & keep us informed.
Regards Dr. Bob
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Edited by - Dr. Bob on 08/17/2008 15:35:25 |
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fireman
Copper Member
14 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 11:47:40
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Hi,
I think that I've managed to resize the photo files, but the server
will not let me put them on to the forum now?
any how, after spending two days trying to take some good quality
close up photo's, without the flash blinding out all the detail,
resize and failed down loads, I actually got around to LOOKING at
the circuit board in more detail and found a couple of dull looking
solder points on the resistor feeding the base conection of the
transistor the controls the LED, and also on the resistor feeding
the switching circuit for the signal path.
so the iron came out and ten minutes later the pedal was working
again,I should have looked at this before I started drawing out
the circuit diagram and bugging the forum members!!
I think that the pedal must have been made with lead solder though because the 'modern' lead free type just didn't want to take to the old stuff even though its got flux in it and all that, does any body else have a problem with this or is it just my soldering technique that stinks?
thanks for the help Dr Bob.
cheers.
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 14:57:58
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Hi fireman
quote:
I think that I've managed to resize the photo files, but the server
will not let me put them on to the forum now?
so the iron came out and ten minutes later the pedal was working
again,I should have looked at this before I started drawing out
the circuit diagram and bugging the forum members!!
That's great news, so I gather you're now aware of how difficult, but not impossible, it is to do remote diagnosis of such faults.
It all really ends up resting on the sholders of the individual, & their level of observational, electronic, skills & patience.
The server will not let you upload files with the same name, if you rename the smaller files, it will let you upload them.
Try adding a suffix like "b" or "s" for smaller ( pedalb.jpg or maybe pedal2.jpg )
Whatever works best for you.
You weren't bugging the members here, you managed to sketch out the Flip-Flop of your FL9.
And I'm sure we all learned something new from your contribution.
I know personally, I will be looking for crappy joints on Ibanez pedals.
Yes the Solder is the 60-40 LEADED solder, it wasn't until around the year 2000 that Lead-Free solders were used by law in the EU.
Don't ever get me into a discussion on lead-free solder/s,  
If you search back in the past 12 months or so, there was quite a discussion here, regarding lead-free solder/s.
I hope you stick around for a bit, now that your FL9 is up & running.
Regards Dr. Bob
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fireman
Copper Member
14 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 16:24:28
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Thanks Dr Bob, I might try and upload the photo's anyway, you never
know it might help somebody else along the way.
I'm always purveying the forum but unlike you I lack the expert
knowledge and so usualy find I'm learning rather that giving advice, one day though, you never know.....
thanks again.
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need help with flip flop!
