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natthu
Gold Member
Australia
756 Posts |
 Posted - 04/09/2010 : 15:34:42
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I have recently noticed that my guitarist never has good tone and he seemingly has no idea about effects. In a recent practice session I got sick of hearing rubbish tone so I tweaked his amp settings (even our drummer agreed that it sounded much better - and he's a drummer)... I'm not the tone king or anything but I know what sounds rubbish. I've also lent him a CE-3, because he owns NO pedals and relies solely on his amp's built in reverb and dirt channel to change sounds. He insists on setting the CE-3 at a much-too-harsh effect level (drummer and I are constantly telling him to use "less effect").
I think a lot of the problem is that he sees a knob labeled "0-10" and thinks "the more the merrier". Instead of finding a sweet spot he just cranks everything.
How do I train this buffoon to find his own tone? I don't want to be a tone dictator, I want him to be able to figure it out himself.
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Edited by - natthu on 04/09/2010 15:38:27 |
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MullyFX
Gold Member
Germany
753 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 15:43:58
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okay several ideas.....
1) get him a chorus without a mix knob
2) take away the chorus all together and exchange it for a univibe...... those sound good at almost all settings.
3) ask him to set his effects when he's got some quiet time and you two groove punks are outside for a cigarette or something. If he's not used to effects at all setting them for the first time in a band practice can be quite hard.
I think all guitarists started with turning their effects all the way up... I know I did.... but only for some time (still do with compressors though at least in a playing situation - recording is something different)
4) you simply can't force him to search for a good tone. he either has to want a good tone or you'd be better off setting the tone for him... that's what his amp builder did and he seems happy with that (and there's nothing wrong with that..... not everybody has to be a tweak head)
5) lend him some of your pedals to try at home.... he will learn what each effect does and maybe get interested in the holy hunt for the perfect tone |
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zerksies
Double Platinum Member
USA
3406 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 16:03:30
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| And i bet he really can't play that well either.what kind of amp is he using |
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natthu
Gold Member
Australia
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 16:05:11
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Some good points in there Mully, Thanks.
Some elaboration:
1) I think he realises that he can have better tone and that may be something he would like... I don't think we need to push him for improvement in tone, more just help him along his way.
1A) I agree that not everyone needs to be a tweak head. This is sometimes a good thing. When it comes to recording time everyone agrees that production is my department (mainly because no one else can be bothered doing the work). Unfortunately it also means that I have to tweak the PA at practice and run the 8 track...
2) drummer and I are definitely groove punks, however, we are the 2 non-smokers in the band. I know that's not very rock 'n' roll, but you've already given me the title of Groove Punk and I'm keeping it.
3) we are actually nice about the whole tone issue - I realise that being mean isn't going to solve anything (in fact it would just cause more problems and make me feel like a jerk).
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natthu
Gold Member
Australia
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 16:14:28
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quote:
Originally posted by zerksies
And i bet he really can't play that well either.what kind of amp is he using
He's no Hendrix but he can play ok... we're probably roughly on par skill-wise... I'm not a lead guitarist (I play bass in this band) but I probably have a better sense of melody than he does. The music we play is pretty simple and doesn't require mega guitar powers - I've never actually played any of the guitar parts in the songs but I'd be able to without practice if needed. I'm not writing any of the material (aside from simple bass lines) because it's really not my sort of music.
He's using my old Marshall 100w solid state amp with a 1960A cab. It's easy to get rubbish tone from but it is possible to make it sound nice aswell. He's using that because he blew up his Fender combo a few weeks back (that was a horrible little amp).
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 16:18:39
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Very tricky situation to broach as tone is a personal thing...what sounds good to one person might not sound good to another...
Be careful tweaking amps on people...a guy who used to hang around with a band i was in one time messed with my volume settings in the middle of the gig once and i had to be held back because i was going to give him a few slaps....this was in the middle of a gig but i was pretty hotheaded when i was younger....  .....maybe a few polite suggestions or even listening to some of the bands or artists you all like and try a find a guitar sound he likes and maybe start from there....BTW some of the top guys use the arion chorus pedal turned up full to emulate a leslie...i love leslies and have a dedicated unit for that sound ..i just don't like the sound of the arion chorus turned up full either...
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natthu
Gold Member
Australia
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 16:26:47
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Well Franz, if I ever see you play a gig I promise I won't jump up on stage and mess with your gear ...
It's quite a friendly atmosphere at practice, no one is particularly serious and we all joke around a lot and give each other crap constantly.
Everyone is fine about others messing with their gear  |
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PaulH
Gold Member
535 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 18:09:27
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There's nothing wrong with what he is doing. Some folks don't like effects and will never use them, that's just the way it is>
If he has a different "sound" and wont change it then...
It's time to advertise for a new guitarist. |
Edited by - PaulH on 04/09/2010 18:09:53 |
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Witloofboer
Gold Member
Belgium
513 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 18:15:17
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| Ask him about his favourite guitar players. Ask him what he likes & eventually he'll come up with the topic 'tone'. Maybe you could challenge him to get a specific tone from an album of, let's say, Jimi Hendrix or ... |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 19:30:43
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quote:
Originally posted by natthu
Well Franz, if I ever see you play a gig I promise I won't jump up on stage and mess with your gear ...
It's quite a friendly atmosphere at practice, no one is particularly serious and we all joke around a lot and give each other crap constantly.
Everyone is fine about others messing with their gear
 ..i've been known to throw a wobbler from time to time...
if thats the case and the marshall head is a valvestate of an MG series head it's possible to get decent tones for those amps...personally what i would do i leave it on the clean channel and use a decent distortion or overdrive pedal in the front end with whatever modulation or delays after it....or put the mod/delay in the effects loop...also i would start with all the tone controls straight up and tewak from there...don't go down the 'no mids in the sound'...IMHO that sort of tone clashes with the bass and the drummers cymbals to be heard properly... |
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jack
Platinum Member
USA
1418 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 22:33:09
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| Sometimes taping a performance or rehearsal, whether its video or audio, can actually do wonders when you see and/or hear yourself the way others do... |
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natthu
Gold Member
Australia
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 05:06:06
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quote:
Originally posted by FRANZONI
...personally what i would do i leave it on the clean channel and use a decent distortion or overdrive pedal in the front end with whatever modulation or delays after it....or put the mod/delay in the effects loop...
I guess this is a good place to start. I have a compendium of OD/dist pedals at the moment - XT-2, SD-1, DS-1, MT-2, MZ-2, HM-2, Blackstar HT Dual, Bad Monkey and a TC Nova Drive... there's got to be something in that list that suits what sound he'd like surely... I aslo have a few Fuzz pedals but I think we've established previously that he's no so into fuzz.
I'll drag a few of these pedals along next practice... I'll let you know how it goes.
Cheers for that Franz
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 05:42:36
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Hi natthu
Interesting & difficult question at the same time
There have been some really great idea's & replies.
perhaps sitting down & talking with him, politely & privately might help as well.
What you do in the end is really up to the individual.
And remember, you may not be able to get him to change.
Just don't make him feel like you are about to gang up on him.
Jacks suggestion of recording the/a session was quite a good one.
I remember just how much of a difference this made to me,
& my band mates in the early days of rehearsing & gigging
Good luck
My tongue in cheek comment was going to be:
(And Zerk's might even notice he's a Lefty)
Always remember:
Music is supposed to be all about having fun in life, & kicking back for a bit.
Regards Dr. Bob |
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natthu
Gold Member
Australia
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 08:53:47
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulH
There's nothing wrong with what he is doing. Some folks don't like effects and will never use them, that's just the way it is>
If he has a different "sound" and wont change it then...
It's time to advertise for a new guitarist.
Well, I'd say having unnessecary bad tone (when your gear is capable of better) is doing wrong... and I don't mean it's his tone and I just don't particularly like it (that's tollerable), it's more that he has nil consideration of tone (maybe he's tone-deaf). The effects thing you said, I agree with. If it ain't your bag that's cool. |
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natthu
Gold Member
Australia
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 09:02:50
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Dr Bob,
Cheers for that  We do have a few cheesy rock 'n' roll moments in the practice room... you know one foot up on the bass drum while playing, painful solo face (while playing chords) and windmill arm. Sometimes we like to do extended rock endings for our songs (those ones where every one does a solo at once)... sounds terrible, but great fun
I saw a local band play a few weeks back and part of their act was the rhythm guitarist weilding his guitar like a rifle and feigning recoil in the direction of the other guitarist who dropped to his knees as if he'd been shot and then pulling out a pained face solo. It was awesome (and extremely rock!)  |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 16:42:00
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| Depending on what pedals your using for yourself,if the HT-dual is available i've found with my Twintube overdrive it's a great way of warming and fattening up the clean channel on a solid state amp... |
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Help me help my guitarist!
