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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
 Posted - 01/24/2008 : 17:18:55
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Here's a post I made over at the Mesa Forum:
Say you have 10 pedals vs. a multi-effect unit. The individual pedals have buffered inputs whereas the multi-effect unit only has one. There would be more signal degradation through many pedals as compared to the multi.
True-bypass pedals or dedicated loops help minimize this degradation.
Additionally, many pedals today are digital. This means you have an AD converter on the input & a DA converter on the output. When you daisy-chain many of these together, latency rises. Combine this latency with 1ms/ft between you & your amp or speaker & you'll soon perceive the inherent delay that has built up. This exhibition is not unlike recording with ambient room mics as the delay approaches noticability.
Keep cables as short as possible. & close-mic your sources.
Another thing to keep in mind is that most effects have their own tonality adjustments. If you have a tone control on each of 10 effects as well as your amp, it can be rather difficult to dial in your sound when they're all on. True, we hardly run 10 effects at once but conceptually, aren't they all fighting each other? Which Bass knob should you attenuate?
A multi-effects unit would solve many of the aforementioned problems. It should be easier to operate & since most of the effects are digital, noise would also be minimized. |
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pedals 4 pv
Platinum Member
Canada
1351 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 20:18:36
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Or you could get a tube amp for each pedal |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 21:55:02
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That means I get to buy 20 more amplifiers!
Tks pedals..  |
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starr36
Platinum Member
Canada
1172 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 07:28:30
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Bah! at the risk of getting booted off the forum, I could not believe my POD XT LIVE through headphones.
IF I WAS writing jingles for TV ads or Radio ads for a living, I couldn't live WITHOUT the digitally quiet tone world of line 6 for speed of getting non-guitar freak tones, but great guitars sounds fast for kwikee recording.
IF I really wanted vintage sounds, I'd forget I ever heard of line6, and just troll the old mid-west small-town music stores looking for old stuff, and keep the setup simple, right boys? |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 09:49:46
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Hi starr36 & guys
I'm mosttly with you on this subject.
I get some fabulous tones & recordings from my POD 2 with the V2.3 ROM's
But I still love the power & explosive tone from a really good tube amp.
I have done some recordings with the Little (original) Pignose 7-100 amp, mic'ed up with an SM57 & the volume way up. can sound like an old Marshall Plexi.
The POD is hard to beat, when you need to do it --- NOW ---
and most people are pressed to tell the difference, once in the mix.
Do you have the floor-board for yours?
I have been having problems recording the Korg Pandora PX4D.
Regards Dr. Bob |
Edited by - Dr. Bob on 01/25/2008 13:16:11 |
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Goran
Double Platinum Member
Sweden
2203 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 10:47:13
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DeFrag has many good points here, this is the area of tone-sucking for sure.
Personally I don�t like multi-effects, too much parameters and the such� But that�s more feeling-wise than concrete facts�.
The truth is, and Dr Bob told it above, when you have a good low power tube amp set at about 6-8 on the volume, then you have the ultimate guitar tone. Touch dynamics, three dimensionality and you name it, the guitar plays by �it self�. A row of pedals destroy this, and probably also multi effects, but which will do the least harm? I�m talking of good tone here, not a lot of messy/fizzy distortion.
This type of creating a good tone means that you have to mike the amp to the PA when playing larger venues.
But to get good tone at lower volumes, pedals come in handy.
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jack
Platinum Member
USA
1418 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 20:53:38
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| I'd much rather deal with 10 pedals and deal with some tone-sucking, then a multi-effects unit that has sucky-tone. Just from my experiences, most multi-effects units do a few things good, but then everything else is just average or crap. To me they are like these huge Swiss Army knives people carry, and they only end up using 3 things out of the 20, so you just have to lug around all the extra stuff for no real reason. |
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 21:45:17
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I dunno.. doesn't the ME-50 provide enough of the basic effects all while keeping the signal digital until final output? If not, then maybe it should.
That is to say.. a very good quality, low noise, multi-effect unit perhaps not unlike the TC Electronic G-System in all likelihood converts the analog signal to digital then runs it through the onboard effects in whatever combination you want with basic parameters before finally converting back to analog.
As long as high sampling is maintained in the digital world as the signal cascades through the different effects, latency & tone suckage would be minimal while the noise floor or S/N ratio would held at an optimal level.
I'm seriously considering retiring my main pedalboard full of Boss effects as a final understanding comes to light regarding the preservation of great tone & a simplified setup. I'm a bit tired of buying these Monster cables everytime I turn around as well.
Guitar > Multi > Amp = Bliss?  |
Edited by - DeFrag on 01/25/2008 21:47:42 |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 02:48:03
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Hi DeFrag
Simpler Formula
Great Finger technique > Guitar > short (good quality) guitar lead > TUBE Amp =
Or even simpler
Great Finger technique > ACOUSTIC Guitar = 
Regards Dr. Bob |
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maxm3210
Copper Member
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 21:04:46
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SINGLE pedals all the way. Way easier, Way simpler to use and you use what you want when you need them.
I own a SD1 and CE3 aside from my other pedals which are:
a wah wah a tube screamer a tremolo a phaser and a booster.
This is all I need, NO MULTY EFFECTS, digital sucks.
Except for the DD3
MAX |
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Mat Grant
Copper Member
United Kingdom
25 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 18:31:08
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Hi,
I think I can offer an opinon here - I have lots of kit, in three main systems.
1. a rack system, TC2290, Kenton midi switcher, nady 950 GS radio, various other rack processors, eg TC G major etc, Seymour Duncan valve preamp (used to have a triaxis and 395 power amp into a 4x12 mesa boogie cab), I now run the rack into two vox amps, an AC30 for clean and a vox climax for overdrive sounds. I sometimes run pedals in the loops of the TC and Kenton as needed. usually the dynacomp and DM2. I've had this since my days doing small tours / festival type gigs with the indy band I used to play in.
2. a gigging system for a tribute band I play in, a flightcase with built in Boss GT5 multi effects (used to be a digitech RP3), a radio system, Boss TU2, and custom built dual overdrive and dyna comp pedal (used to be an OD2 plus a vintage dyna comp but I got fed up with the dyna comp failing - at least it was true bypass. But this has loads of presets, and is reliable and portable.
3. a pedal system, 5 boss pedals in a small flightcase for my own band, for messing around at home, small gigs, and recording. Pedals are TU2, PS2, DD3, DM2, OD2. (Yes I have two TU2 pedals - I think this is the pedal everyone should!
There are pros and cons to each system:
In my opinion the multieffects pedal is the best in terms of price (ie bang for the buck), I paid �80 for the Boss GT5, you could use it on it's own on a gig, the control and presets are great. I have the separate tuner pedal as I like the display better than the GT5 tuner, plus it's easier to find onstage plus it gives me a nice big mute pedal to aim at, and leave the GT5 'control' pedal switch available for other things (this C pedal is really handy). I also use a separate overdrive (RAT and tubescreamer) and dyna comp, as i like the sound much better. The GT5 distortions are a bit pants if you ask me.
Individual pedals are great for flexibility and being really compact, really easy to swap out a pedal if I was to use something different for a particular gig or recording.
The rack system with pedals in loops is definitely the best system of all for sound quality. But it cost a lot of money, took a long time to get together, and weighs a ton. But the pedals can be switched out of the path, so no noise (I actually bought a noise reduction unit (Rocktron hush) and I ended up with more noise!!! Because it's valuable, I don't like leaving it in venues and in vans etc.
For gigging the rack is very reliable, only the amp to speakers or the rack to amps is plugged in and out, so never any dodgy cables etc. The footswitch is powered off the rack, but the system will carry on working without it. One advantage is you can set up evrything about the sound in a preset, then reach it off one button. The GT5 pedal system beeds a bit of tapdancing onstage. 
The weakness of individual pedals for me is delay times - I use a minimum of three delay times (which is why there are three delay pedals in my pedal board) The best thing about the pedals is the flexibility, you can just grab one off the shelf, they add an individual character to the sound - eg a boss CE2 sounds different to the TC2290 chorus etc etc. sometimes for recording i'll just use an amp with maybe 1 pedal.
The quest for the 'perfect sound' and the 'perfect system' has led me to a huge rack worth thousands of pounds, then to a pedal system, then to a bit of both, and finally to recognising that each approach has merits, so I have the three types of system.
But at the moment, I'm mostly playing at home, and recording in a studio, it's the boss pedals that are getting used the most. If I ever do touring again and the logistics support it I'll get the rack out, but I'd say it totally depends on your circumstances, and budget! - insert 'sitting on fence' icon here(!)
Cheers, Mat. |
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bossarea
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
3652 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 19:45:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Mat Grant
I actually bought a noise reduction unit (Rocktron hush) and I ended up with more noise!!!
I did the same mistake. I got a rack with a PodXT Pro and a Behringer Eq. It was pretty noisy so I thought the Hush would work wonders but that was a mistake. |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2008 : 05:26:48
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Dr. Bob... V2.3 ROMS for POD2? Whare can i get me some of those?
Laurie. |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2008 : 09:13:27
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quote:
Originally posted by lauries2
Dr. Bob... V2.3 ROMS for POD2? Whare can i get me some of those?
Laurie.
Hi Laurie2
It's just one EPROM, can't remember the type.
You were able to call, write to Line 6 and ask them to send one out.
They would send it out free, or for the postage costs.
Don't know if they still do this?
Still it's worth contacting them.
What version ROM are you running?
In all your neat test gear...
Do you have access to a EPROM Programmer?
I also have a PDF of the differences in the V2.3 ROM
I'll wait for your reply.
Or just PM me, I know you have the address.
And we'll discuss it off-line
Regards Dr. Bob |
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Single Effects vs. Multi-Effects
