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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
 Posted - 03/05/2009 : 05:38:07
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I've been mucking around with high impedance ("Hi-Z") driver pedals for the last couple of weeks and have discovered a few things about gain structure in a pedalboard. This probably obvious to everyone who has been doing this for longer than I have, but it's all new to me 
What's your experience?
The best gain structure I've found so far is this:
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 08:20:31
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<<bump>>
If I'm out to lunch with this stuff, don't hesitate to let me know... |
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Witloofboer
Gold Member
Belgium
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 08:40:43
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Do you have 2 fender twins, or is it just one?
Anyway, it looks like this would be the option I'd use. It seems like there is no other option, as you use a 'boost' to get your tube distorted sounds.
I use my Big Muff to get heavier sounds, and use the gain on my amplifier as bluesy gain. |
Edited by - Witloofboer on 03/06/2009 08:42:06 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 14:35:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Witloofboer
Do you have 2 fender twins, or is it just one?
The two silverface Twins are what I wish for! (I saw Eric Johnson has that on his clean rig)
I have a blackface re-issue Vibrolux on one side and a Marshall JCM600 on the other in my current rig.
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Witloofboer
Gold Member
Belgium
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 14:38:58
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| I guess you use your Marshall for dirt and your Vibrolux as clean amp. That's much gear to gig with! |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 15:06:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Witloofboer
I guess you use your Marshall for dirt and your Vibrolux as clean amp. That's much gear to gig with!
Ohh... I don't gig with it - strictly a basement rig
The amps are for left and right channels in a stereo rig - both set for clean. I've seen reviews that say the JCM600 has the best clean channel of any Marshall. It's no Fender, but the clean is very nice. I'm using the Fender for the other channel because between the two amps the sound is nice nicely rounded.
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Witloofboer
Gold Member
Belgium
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 15:11:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Laurie
The amps are for left and right channels in a stereo rig - both set for clean.
I tried playing in stereo a few times, but I don't get it right. There's always one side which is too loud. I try to keep my rig minimal. The less effects, the more pleasure!
Do you use your Tubescreamer in this rig? |
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Dr. Bob
Moderator
Australia
6593 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 15:30:53
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Hi Laurie & guys
Interesting topic.
The Hi-Z buffer thing is sort of what I do when I'm recording.
I use my Custom made buffer/booster "Secret Weapon" as I call it.
Like yourself, unless you have experienced the difference in dynamics
that these circuits help produce, it's difficult to explain to someone
that has not.
There are a few toyz that I have that also have extremely Hi-Z inputs
These can be both a blessing and a curse.
One of my toyz, is really fantastic at pickup up and amplifying the one tiny fret buzz I have on my Blackie Strat.
That other Lower-Z pedals tend to mask.
I know you'll hate me for saying this, but "just sometimes",
I prefer the dulling of hi-end and dynamics, I get from the lower-Z pedals/toyz.
I guess it's horses for courses, but most times I'll use the Hi-Z buffer,
you can hear the difference in most of the guitar tracks I have uploaded, "Holding Alex" being the most notable,
even considering that it was crushed into a 192Kb/s MP3.
That was just my Blackie Strat, and a little reverb/delay added to the final mix, from the workstation.
I am really interested in the fact that you are using Bipolar transistors in your HZD.
I know that these type of circuits can "Sometimes" be difficult to
tweak to perrrrrrrfection, as you have been doing.
The stray capacitance issue you have solved can be a a real 
I might have to get you to put me down for a HZD, a bit later on.
I'm keen to compare it to my design.
If you recall, I run mine from a rechargeable 11V NiMh batteries.
to keep the noise floor as low as possible.
But I'm considering going to around 20-24VDV.
Regards Dr. Bob 
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Edited by - Dr. Bob on 03/06/2009 15:46:54 |
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zestystrat
Silver Member
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2009 : 18:55:29
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Boooooo master volume silverface Fenders.
Sorry, thats all I have to add. |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2009 : 18:58:52
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quote:
Originally posted by zestystrat
Boooooo master volume silverface Fenders.
Sorry, thats all I have to add.
Hey! I don't own them, they are just "for illustrative purposes" I have a pair of Marshall JCM600's and a Fender Vibrolux reissue |
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zestystrat
Silver Member
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2009 : 19:46:59
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| Yep I knew that going in....okay crawling back under my rock now. |
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silvertone6120
Gold Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 14:51:46
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quote:
Originally posted by zestystrat
Boooooo master volume silverface Fenders.
Sorry, thats all I have to add.
I dunno...I kinda feel see the same way, but have you ever heard Marty Stuart play through two master volume Twins? His tone is phenomenal. |
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nosi0
Gold Member
Netherlands
511 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 15:10:45
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Could you give some examples of what a Hi-Z driver is? would it be something like a MXR-MC401?
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 15:25:21
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quote:
Originally posted by nosi0
Could you give some examples of what a Hi-Z driver is? would it be something like a MXR-MC401?
Yep. That's just the thing. The HZD pedal that I designed for myself (shown in the pic at the start of the thread) is essentially the same thing, but with EQ added (same as the old Boss FA-1). And I did it for a lot less than the $170 retail on the MC401
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Edited by - Laurie on 03/10/2009 15:25:41 |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 15:40:30
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Do you really need two booster pedals off the CH-1 to drive the line signal..? i've never noticed much need for anything after the pedalboard between the input of the amp..if i need more volume i just turn the amp up a bit....
quote:
Originally posted by Witloofboer
I guess you use your Marshall for dirt and your Vibrolux as clean amp. That's much gear to gig with!
I use a Musicman 2x12 combo and a marshall head and 2x12 cab in stereo on gigs for the last few years off a CH-1 and my twin tube overdrive as my crunch and lead tones... and yep it's a lot to haul around but the tone is great,i too saw Eric Johnson demostrate his clean sounds and was hooked but rather than go switching amps for diffrent tones i just got a tube overdrive pedal with two channels instead.... ...i think were going down the half acoustic/half electric route on the gigs so i will probably scale down slightly and just use the musicman as my main amp and get an A/B box at the end of the chain to switch between the PA for the acoustic and the amp for electric..i have the GE-7 as my acoustic preamp insteand of the CH-1 now on my board...the marshall will be in the van for backup......
just on the point of using two diffrent type of amps together in stereo..i found that the Marshall and the musicman compliment each other but i also have done some work on both..the main one being the marshall which is using tonebones in the output section with EL84's rather the standard EL 34's...but two different amps or make of amps can work together quite well...... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 03/10/2009 15:45:37 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2009 : 12:48:14
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quote:
Originally posted by FRANZONI
Do you really need two booster pedals off the CH-1 to drive the line signal..? i've never noticed much need for anything after the pedalboard between the input of the amp..if i need more volume i just turn the amp up a bit....
Just saw your post Franzoni...
Yeah, it really does make a tremendous difference. Using driver pedals into the amp, you are driving the first tube stage harder (with up to maybe 6V compared to maybe 0.5V from the CH-1). Turning up the volume drives later stages harder. Driving that first stage hard produces some really nice tone.
quote:
just on the point of using two diffrent type of amps together in stereo..i found that the Marshall and the musicman compliment each other but i also have done some work on both..the main one being the marshall which is using tonebones in the output section with EL84's rather the standard EL 34's...but two different amps or make of amps can work together quite well......
My JCM600 is stock - they have a massively good clean channel. The Fender is the vibrolux reissue I modified (I had a thread about it last year).
I've actually changed the rig since posting this thread... I now have two JCM600's, one for left, and one for right, and I split the signal off before the final stereo pedals and have the vibrolux running as a "center" channel. Hell of a good sound, but a bit fiddly and no way you could do it at a gig. Strictly for the basement.
Intrerestingly I've found that i am turning the vibrolux on less and less... just running with the stereo JCM's. |
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Topic |
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Pedalboard gain structure
