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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
 Posted - 06/17/2008 : 19:04:28
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Hi all
some of you might of seen the pics i posted of my new rack,i've been playing with the idea of getting a couple of 1x12 cabs to run it in stereo either side of my stage amp,but something Dr Bob said about moddellers sounding better through full range speakers got me thinking....if i was to use a couple of full range active speakers or monitors i could use it as an amp for my acoustic....basically the set up i'm going for is...guitar-pedalboard-pod-out of the unprocessed output to my amp.... at the same time since the pod is getting a signal,feeding two powered cabs in stereo with the reverb and my dynacord rotary sim...so the main anp is mono and 'dry' ..i.e it gets the boss stuff as usual...i know it will also come in the powered monitors but the reverb and the dynacord will be true stereo in these..plus i have been trying to get the lads to do more acoustic stuff so i reckon this would be a good acoustic amp... any input as always welcome.... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 06/17/2008 19:14:15 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 20:44:09
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I have done exactly this... with a POD 2.0.
I have been doing FOH sound for years (so i have an understanding of full-range speaker, amps, etc) and can share the following observations.
Minimum power required for electric guitar in a rock band situation is 300 to 500W/side (or 700 to 1000W if running mono). This can be lowered to about half of that for folk type bands.
This requirement for "so much" power is because the power in a PA is clean power - and has quite different drive capability to a tube amp.
Some very capable full-range speakers are also necessary.
I guess what I'm saying is that some 200W cheapo disco speakers and a 100W/side power amp just wont cut through (and it wont satisfy).
My preferred rig for this in a loud rock band situation (and just because I have this particular gear) is a Crown CE2000 amp (600W into 8 ohms per side) running into JBL MS112 full range speakers.
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2008 : 04:07:59
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I'm seriously think of going with the two full range speakers after some advice from laurie..i reckon a person with 2 metric tonnes of P.A. gear in his basement knows what he's talking about....slainte mate..!!.......i was thinking of something like the JBL EON G2 10"s or similar..there is a pair of EON 15"s for sale at the moment locally but i think they are a bit big for what i need.... pity he is only looking for 650 for the pair...one on it's own is nearly 700 euro new in the shops... is there an earlier version of the EON..i.e a G1 and is it any use...i have nothing against 2nd hand gear as long as it works...!! to be honest as i have found over the years some of the older stuff is better made sometimes...... the only thing putting me off is the size and weight..the 10"s are only 321mm wide....and in small pub or club the 15"s might be too much..... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 06/19/2008 15:17:31 |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2008 : 05:56:16
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Sounds good to me - the 10 inch version will give about 400W for the pair which will sound very good if you guys don't have the stage volume cranked 
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2008 : 15:36:45
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we had a little meeting after rehearsal last night and it looks like the acoustic thing is gonna kick off,with three of us anyway..so i will be in the market for these,as some of the reports and reviews on the acoustic guitar forums said powered speakers sounded better than some of the acoustic guitar amps especially if your using outboard gear as well...i've been known to use a couple of things from time to time... ...it will be the end of july at the earliest as i have to start saving and i have a family holiday to france in between so if i went a bit G.A.S. i reckon Mrs F would have a meltdown that would put 3 mile island to shame.... what i might do is get our full range powered stage monitors at home as a experiment to see what the sound is like..these have a built in graphic EQ which i don't want but i'll set it as flat as possible and report back the results.....
P.S. ..i meant to say as well,personally i think some sort of stage amp is good with acoustic as running everything through the PA while it sounds great,on the small gigs we do,the stage monitors don't spread out the sound as much as i would like,so it can be hard to hear yourself in the mix...anyone else any opinions on amping acoustic instruments..? ..... |
Edited by - FRANZONI on 06/19/2008 15:44:26 |
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verivorax
Platinum Member
Canada
1185 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 15:21:23
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Just to add to this.. I know a guy setting up a Meshuggah tribute band, and his tone is POD x3 --> VHT power amp --> Mesa Cab + Doyle Cab, but he's moving to some 15" full range PA speakers.
Mind you, the guitar is tuned to LOW F (8-string), and it's all an effort to remove the woofiness of the guitar-range speakers.
FRANZONI: have you looked into the BOSE L1 system? They're pricey, but a new model came out and the old ones should have gone down. They behave as a monitor and main, highly feedback resistant and incredible spread. The idea is that every band member has their own ($$$$$$), so the PA sound is sourced from the player, but fills the entire hall (and allows musicians to hear themselves on the stage).. Cheap/New in Canada is about $1600, but it's a 2000 watt unit, portable, and sounds like nothing else.
http://www.bose.com/musicians |
Edited by - verivorax on 06/22/2008 15:24:33 |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 17:27:30
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quote:
Originally posted by verivorax
Just to add to this.. I know a guy setting up a Meshuggah tribute band, and his tone is POD x3 --> VHT power amp --> Mesa Cab + Doyle Cab, but he's moving to some 15" full range PA speakers.
Mind you, the guitar is tuned to LOW F (8-string), and it's all an effort to remove the woofiness of the guitar-range speakers.
FRANZONI: have you looked into the BOSE L1 system? They're pricey, but a new model came out and the old ones should have gone down. They behave as a monitor and main, highly feedback resistant and incredible spread. The idea is that every band member has their own ($$$$$$), so the PA sound is sourced from the player, but fills the entire hall (and allows musicians to hear themselves on the stage).. Cheap/New in Canada is about $1600, but it's a 2000 watt unit, portable, and sounds like nothing else.
http://www.bose.com/musicians
....what a set up. .if only setting up our band rig was like that....maybe one day.... thanks for the link verivorax but i think this is a bit out of my range(no pun intended..) at the moment really all i'm trying to do is to have my usual guitar amp 'dry' i the centre and the stereo effect on either side ala Larry Carlton or Steve Lukather so two small fullrange speakers will be loads..i wouldn't use the Pod on it's own as a preamp as i'm not convinced that it sounds as good as a real valve amp,what it does do is give me a range on routing options for my signal with a lot of pretty good sims of classic effects..some of the delays/echoes are very good,and pre programmability for delay patches plus switchable stereo effects loop for the dynacord in the rack...i think i'm nearly there with the pod in how i want to use it in my rig... all i need now is the older version of the FBV 4 express that line 6 are marketing now...i have the FBV shortboard but it is too much for wht i need and to be honest i don't like the volume/wah pedal that comes with them,the older version just had 4 switches and which for some reason seems to be rarer than hens teeth... this would allow me to still use the tap tempo function of the pod with access to 4 of the patches..which for me anyway is more than enough..... cheers for the link to the Bose system... i'm going to show it to my mates in the band and give them some ideas...anything that gives us more drinking time after a gig wil appeal to those bums.... .... |
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Line 6 POD and speaker type..?
