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kelmaur
Gold Member
USA
505 Posts |
 Posted - 05/19/2009 : 14:55:38
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ok guys..i would like some help and input here....
dont throw stones at me, but i have never had a tube amp....
...and realized over the years that is what need to obtain the sound i am looking for..im guessing a Marshall, but i would like ot experiment and try other brands that i may be able to get the same or similar sound out of
Tone im looking for is in the realms of Paul Gilbert (Laney, Marshall..that i know of)
Steve Vai (Carvin)
what are decent Marshall models for the money ( im not rich, lol)
Mesa Boogie maybe..i have heard good things about theses but never played one
saw a video somewhere of someone playing through an Ashdown Fallen Angel head and it sounded great (also with Boss pedals)
looking for suggestions/recommendations from longtime tube amp players
i would appreciate all of the help, im in the process of looking now..i am not goin got jump at the first thing that catches my ear, i want to take my time and really make a good choice in an amp
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DeFrag
Moderator
USA
3409 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 16:03:08
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Welcome soon to the wonderful world of tube amps.. you'll never go back to solid-state!
I am relatively new myself having jumped into them only 5 years or so ago.
A couple questions are in order:
1. For what purpose will the amplifier you seek be used? practice, gigs, studio.. et al.
2. Do you need warm Class-A tone, deep reverb, or tight power?
3. What form-factor do you need/want.. combo or head+cab?
4. What would you consider to be your budget?
If you're considering Marshall, also consider VOX & Orange. The following come to mind:
Marshall DSL401 2-channel 40W combo $1200
Marshall JVM210H/1960A head/cab $2570
VOX AC30 Custom Classic $1200
Orange Rocker 30 head/PPC212 cab $1400/$665
I opted for the Fender HotRod Deville 2x12 combo for my son, thinking since it has power, classic Fender & reverb, & cleans to die for, it was a great choice. He can actually run almost any effects with the amp to get any tone he wants.. such versatility. He uses a little Marshall DFX30 as his practice amp.
I have a Mesa/Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo with the optional 2x12 extended cab. It sports 4 channels with voicing between tweed, vintage, modern, & raw modes. It has great cleans but is more geared to chunky metal as only a rectifier can provide. Mesa's are notoriously expensive but of course they are worth it for their quality & are among the few brands that hold their value extremely well. Their smaller combo models are held in very high regard especially the Lone Star & Stilletto lines.
I think the most fun I've had is with the little amps I've had pleasure with the last couple years. Foremost would be the Egnater Rebel-20. What can I say? It is a fabulous little amp. Its my most versatile amp I have with its voicing, variable power (1-20W), variable tube selection (EL84 or 6V6), & FX loop, wow. It would be almost perfect if it had another channel. I love it to death & its my goto amp.
My two Class-A amps are like night & day. The Orange Tiny Terror head on the PPC112 cab shines with its creamy, gritty tones. While the Blackheart Little Giant 112 combo breaks up at just the right spot for that classic blues sound I love. These two amps together, complement each other like no other amps can. I highly recommend getting your ears on both Orange & Blackheart to hear for yourself.
Gretsch (G6136 20W), VOX (Night Train 15W), Laney (Lionheart L20H), & Peavey (Windsor Studio 15W or JSX Mini Colossal) are all good amps to be considered. There are just too many.. Diezel, Bogner, Matchless.. it goes on.
Another thing to think about is how many pedals you want to run. What I mean to say is that I used to try to get "my sound" with millions of effects pedals in front of my amps. What I've found instead is a minimal application of effects (4 or 5 tops) & nowadays, I get my tones through multiple amps instead. Therefore, I recommend you end up with a couple different amps. One as your main & one Class-A as a complement. You may find simplicity leads to better tones, especially as you delve into your first few tube amps. Some of your pedals may in fact gather dust... Its a great ride! |
Edited by - DeFrag on 05/19/2009 18:32:47 |
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zentropa
Gold Member
USA
837 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 16:41:03
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what kind of price range are you seriously considering?
for marshall, the best values imo are the JCM900's and JCM600's. JCM900 values have pretty much bottomed out at slightly above where the JCM800's were sitting 10-12 years ago. ~$400-550 for a head, $450-600 for a combo. JCM600's fly way under the radar and can be found for anywhere from $250-600. out of the JCM2000's, the DSL 401 and 201 are probably the only "good deals" you'll find, although you can stumble upon TSL1022 combos for under $650 if you dig hard enough.
laney aor pro tube series amps are way undervalued but it's hard to find one that doesn't need a large overhaul (re-tube, recap, etc.) as most people who tend to buy inexpensive used tube amps rarely care for them. 30-100 watt versions available in heads/combos, usually in the $200-500 range.
sovtek aren't really much of a secret anymore, but if you want JCM800 tone for ~$500ish, that's the way to go. their stuff was like $299 new in 1994.
Red Bear are still under the radar but hard to find anyone selling them... their stuff was like $250 new in 1996 but are now more like $450.
mesa you are looking at the bottom of the barrel. F-30/F-50/F-100's as well as rocket and caliber series stuff is about all you'll find under $700 (with some of the lower wattage combos being closer to $450). you might be able to find an old mark series with a bunch of broken knobs.
imo, the best value are from peavey amps, especially for the tones you are describing. they don't have great resale value but you can usually nab them cheap. in the $400-550 range you can probably find a 5150 or XXX. in the under $400 range you could consider the ultra series and triumph. it's not out of the realm of reality to find a peavey for under $300.
crate blue voodoo stuff is almost a shoe-in for under $300 but these also had design flaws which will have the map in the repair shop once every 2 years or so. the crate stealth is usually a steal in the $175-250 range.
carvin amps also have terrible resale value so you might be able to find one in the $300 range, but i'd recommend seeking out only the high gain models. you probably won't find a legacy for less than $500.
any of the models i listed will probably get really close to the tone you listed. |
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DasBeef
Gold Member
United Kingdom
704 Posts |
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kelmaur
Gold Member
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 18:51:30
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A couple questions are in order:
1. For what purpose will the amplifier you seek be used? practice, gigs, studio.. et al.
2. Do you need warm Class-A tone, deep reverb, or tight power?
3. What form-factor do you need/want.. combo or head+cab?
4. What would you consider to be your budget?
Answers below:
#1. all of the above
#2. Yes, maybe some, and probably.
#3. probably looking at a half stack (i think will be enough)
#4. is it possible to get something decent for under $1000? |
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kelmaur
Gold Member
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 18:53:09
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| are there decent combo's out there that can compete with half stacks |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 19:04:45
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quote:
Originally posted by zentropa
for marshall, the best values imo are the JCM900's and JCM600's. JCM600's fly way under the radar and can be found for anywhere from $250-600.
I can highly recommend the JCM600. I have a pair of them (used in stereo) and the clean tone is KILLER - OK, it's not a Fender, but it's the best clean I've ever heard in a Marshall. Distortion channel is good too. Just an all around good amp, and cheap.
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kelmaur
Gold Member
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 20:13:39
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thanks guys....any more info would be appreciated...but there is a lot here already
thanks |
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PaulH
Gold Member
535 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 01:16:22
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For a rock solid indestructable tube amp that will survive years of road abuse and (probably) out-live you, get a Mesa/Boogie combo.
Clean tones are just superb.
They work nicely with a few Boss pedals too.
I had one for years & years (To get it I traded in my Marshall at the time). |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 01:26:04
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Well... if we are into Mesa territory... A good used "Roadster" won't set you back too much more than US$1000. Killer tones, massive versatility, but heavy  |
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zerksies
Double Platinum Member
USA
3406 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 01:31:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Laurie
quote:
Originally posted by zentropa
for marshall, the best values imo are the JCM900's and JCM600's. JCM600's fly way under the radar and can be found for anywhere from $250-600.
I can highly recommend the JCM600. I have a pair of them (used in stereo) and the clean tone is KILLER - OK, it's not a Fender, but it's the best clean I've ever heard in a Marshall. Distortion channel is good too. Just an all around good amp, and cheap.
I have to second that i had one years ago in my opinoin the bset sounding marshall ever |
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nosi0
Gold Member
Netherlands
511 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 02:22:41
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Where are you going to find a Mesa Boogie Roadster for around 1,000 USD???? Here and in Europe they cost around 2,000 Euros. Atleast we get good deals on ENGL amps.
How many channels do you want. do you want to use a 2 channel clean/lead amp and then create the rhythm tones using pedals through the clean channel. or do you want a 4 channel amp with clean/rhythm/lo-gain-lead/hi-gain-lead. that is going to make a big difference in what you are looking for.
I would personally go for Hughes & Kettner, ENGL, MesaBoogie or a Peavey JSX. Marshall's don't live up to today's standards in my opinion. |
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FRANZONI
Double Platinum Member
Ireland
3543 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 11:31:38
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Personally i like the older valve/tube amps...
1/ IMHO they were built better to handle the heat from the tubes with the components used and abuse of the of the road...(no MDF usually solid pine or ply)
2/ easier to fix when something goes bang.....very few have stuff hardwired to the circuit board or possibly even n o circuit board at all....!
3/ Usually simpler,basic design and signal path for a cleaner sound.... if you use pedals anyway to shape you sound i find in my experience less on the amp to dial in is better.. a simple EQ,turn up the volume and away you go....
old amps don't have to cost an arm and leg to buy either... i'm not talking about vintage blackfaced fenders... Hiwatt,70's JMP era Marshalls,Musicman,silverface fenders etc... can be got for for not a lot of money in the states compared to Europe...i got my Marshall JMP superbass mk2 for about �120... all it needed was a few new output valves......and i've managed to learn basic maintainence on them....if i can do it anyone can...!....... |
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Laurie
Double Platinum Member
Canada
4854 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 11:37:48
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quote:
Originally posted by nosi0
Where are you going to find a Mesa Boogie Roadster for around 1,000 USD????
Actually... waiting for the right deal in North America (and you do have to wait) you can get a used-not-abused Roadster for maybe US$1200. |
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Witloofboer
Gold Member
Belgium
513 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 12:59:19
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quote:
Originally posted by FRANZONI
Personally i like the older valve/tube amps...
1/ IMHO they were built better to handle the heat from the tubes with the components used and abuse of the of the road...(no MDF usually solid pine or ply)
2/ easier to fix when something goes bang.....very few have stuff hardwired to the circuit board or possibly even n o circuit board at all....!
3/ Usually simpler,basic design and signal path for a cleaner sound.... if you use pedals anyway to shape you sound i find in my experience less on the amp to dial in is better.. a simple EQ,turn up the volume and away you go....
old amps don't have to cost an arm and leg to buy either... i'm not talking about vintage blackfaced fenders... Hiwatt,70's JMP era Marshalls,Musicman,silverface fenders etc... can be got for for not a lot of money in the states compared to Europe...i got my Marshall JMP superbass mk2 for about �120... all it needed was a few new output valves......and i've managed to learn basic maintainence on them....if i can do it anyone can...!.......
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silvertone6120
Gold Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 14:54:35
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Boogies can be found at good prices. I just picked up a Mark I reissue for $800 on ebay; should be arriving today.
Probably not what the original poster is looking for, but over the weekend I picked up a new Fender Deluxe VM. The VM stands for "vintage modified"...it's 40 watts into a 12" Celestion speaker, two channels(the drive channel is actually pretty good), digital reverb along with delay and chorus built in. The reverb is happenin'...I don't have to go above 2 on the dial for that. The delay is great(for a digital) and the chorus is usable(that's about all I can give that).
I bought this amp for use at jams, small pick-up gigs, and church. But I actually plan on trying it on bigger gigs as well. I can bring this amp and not have to worry about carrying an effects rig(I bring a tuner to run into the effects loop) so transport is a lot easier. |
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Need help picking out an amp.......
